To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

Definitely depends on location. I don't know any parents here in their 20's when I went to baby group or now at nursery drop offs, I'd actually say I was about the average age at 35.

Quite frankly it’s not anyone’s business, how, when or if a woman decides to have children.

Aren’t the issues with having children later two fold - not just fertility, but risks in pregnancy and risks of anomalies and health conditions etc?

There are no SpRs anymore, not since 2007.

Anyone who isn't a foundation doctor is either a core trainee or a specialist trainee.

This " new" (nearly 20 years old now) system means that doctors have far more job security and protected status from much earlier in their training. Hopefully allowing greater flexibility from an earlier stage and therefore a younger age.

I am well aware this doesn't always work in practice. However all trainees are entitled to train flexibily which Hopefully makes things somewhat easier.

Yeah, it makes me lol to think of the number of men I know who were up for settling down and having kids in their 20s ...... Absolute minimum.

That's prime time for education, career, travelling, hobbies, playing the field, maybe having a relationship but not marriage and kids etc for them.

Are 20 something women supposed to settle with decade older men to get around the above?

They're usually in relationships already with their peers. And settling/having kids in their 30s.

Even if single, how depressing to pressure young women to settle with decade older men because they "must" have kids at peak fertility.

On a related point - peak is peak.
Peak oil is long past but most of the world is still running on it.

For a long time (not sure if it's still there) the NHS fertility page had a factoid that 90% of women 39 and under would conceive within two years of TTC.

That factoid, quoted on here, has resulted in me being told I am speaking "nonsense", that I am embarassing myself etc etc. When I posted the link, there was silence in response.

I think most of us, from observation and experience would also say that the fact is corroborated around us.

The problem is the 10% - some of whom would have had issues, even in their 20s, and I'm the level of pain etc it causes those women/couples

Back on op's main point; if her friends are in their 30s - particularly well into their 30s, would like kids, are in relationship with partners they can see themselves having kids with ..... Yes, I agree it's a bit foolish/mind boggling to try egg freezing and just not start TTC.

Even if they don't want to start TTC, they'd be better to freeze embryos than eggs.

They rise but nonetheless most women in their early 40s will not have issues.

Alongside the requirement for education about fertility among young men, would be the equal requirement for education of ken that just because they can theoretically have kids til.old age, does not mean that their genetic material does not age and that they also are an increasing risk for abnormalities as they pass 39/40.

To my knowledge fertility clinics do not accept donor sperm from men over 39; a fact that I'd say most men (and women) are blissfully unaware of.

Yeah, it makes me lol to think of the number of men I know who were up for settling down and having kids in their 20s ...... Absolute minimum.

DH was 30 - I was 28 - while we weren't fist in University educated peers to have kids we were very much among the first.

University education for both sexes does I think push everything back a few years - but I think DH was amenable partly because his closest colleagues were a few year older and starting families and most of his peers at school never went to university and were already dads. Plus we'd been together 10 years by then which is early to meet.

If Op friends are in their 30s and think they're with the right man does seem odd to egg freeze rather than TTC or plan to TTC at a certain date rather than pay serious money and go through medical procedures - I wonder if the men in relationships with are ones dragging feet and they want to give them more time to get on board and keep all their options open.

I wonder if the men in relationships with are ones dragging feet and they want to give them more time to get on board and keep all their options open.

I wonder that too.

Many men think (to some extent correctly) that they have an indefinite amount of time to have kids and tend, in my experience, to project that lack of urgency and tendency for delaying/putting off into their relationships - regardless of the fact that women are not in that position. Many of them would quite "unintentionally", mindlessly waste a woman's fertile years due to their mindset.

And let's face it, at the base of it, even if it's subconscious, they think they can just have kids with a different younger woman when they're older/feel totally ready and it doesn't work with this one (or not have them at all).

I think their mentality is why so many kids are conceived "accidentally". I could not persuade partner to have a second child and I lost count of the number of women who said to me when I mentioned his extreme reluctance "ah sure you don't get their permission, you just go ahead, he'll be fine when they arrive" of words to that effect.

*or words to that effect

I agree, people are bing disingenuous to attribute all problems with conceiving with age. The vast majority of people in their 30s will conceive naturally. The remaining 10% will be due to a whole host of other reasons, age simply being 1 of them.

I suppose time is useful when exploring treatment options etc?

The risks aren't as large as people make out.

Also it takes two to tango so actually we need an education for men about their sperm quality.

I know some women who found they had fertility issues in their 20s. In some of their cases no amount of exploring would make them be able to get pregnant and give birth.

I’m sure that’s true for some, but for others a younger body might aid their chances? I don’t know just seems a logical conclusion.

I think their mentality is why so many kids are conceived "accidentally". I could not persuade partner to have a second child and I lost count of the number of women who said to me when I mentioned his extreme reluctance "ah sure you don't get their permission, you just go ahead, he'll be fine when they arrive" of words to that effect.

Yes - I heard a lot of contraceptive accidents, from women themselves, that were anything but that ( and many - coil one especially - that really were contraceptive failures).

I never understood it as I wanted DH fully on board but then I was never faced with a change of mind situation.

Who knows?

There are lots of different scenarios.

I think their mentality is why so many kids are conceived "accidentally". I could not persuade partner to have a second child and I lost count of the number of women who said to me when I mentioned his extreme reluctance "ah sure you don't get their permission, you just go ahead, he'll be fine when they arrive" of words to that effect.

I know of several instances of this in my circle. I can’t fathom how it’s socially acceptable - and it is, otherwise people wouldn’t joke about it.

History fact:

This (the early 21st century) isn't the first time humanity has had a panic about low birth rates.

Two examples of this happening at earlier times were during the later days of ancient Rome (the ancient Romans, especially in their latter times, were not good at reproducing themselves) and 19th century France, where women were having only about three children on average, resulting in the French population being outpaced by Germany and other countries.

The interesting thing is that the public policy response to these panics, in both cases, was to put pressure on men to get married (they instituted things like bachelor taxes, and rules preventing unmarried men from doing all kinds of things like serving in government positions etc.).

Not saying that that was either right or effective, but I do find it interesting that the focus was on men in these historical periods.

In modern (supposedly more enlightened) times, by contrast, it's always women who are blamed. Even though surveys show consistently that the commonest reason for women "not having children even though I did originally want them" is not careerism, but "not being able to find a stable, committed male partner who wanted to marry me and be a father."

This is interesting. Some of DH's contempories (he is nearly 49) are now actively looking for the " mother of their children" having previously not wanted commitment and/or babies.

The women they are having relationships with are 15-20 years younger. Three in the last year.

Why are you giving me this lecture on training grades? I work with CTs, STs and FY doctors and know the structure.

I think some people are in denial about age. I've seen some posts on infertility to the effect of: 'done loads of tests and the Drs can't find a reason we're not conceiving'. Then it turns out the couple are 42 and 43. So...that'll be the reason then? There's a lot of head in the sand going on.

Just don't overemphasis fertility declines. My grandmother and one aunt had their last baby at 51. I got married in my teen years and every time I talked about children, my mother would go on about not taking for granted that I could have them. Enough of this and I got anxious and started my family before I was 20. No regrets but it definitely played on my mind. If I was going to have trouble, better to find out earlier, I thought. I had no trouble at all.

On the other hand, I've got cousins who waited till they were in their 30s and they have found themselves unable to have children.

As for my mother's concerns, I'm nearly 50 and still fertile. I know the risk of miscarriage is higher at my age but I have a gut feeling I'd be okay. Not that I'll ever find out.