To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

True I always knew I wanted children. TBH I probably saw potential partners through that lens, certainly from 21 onwards, less so at 17.

totally agree with this

I was in my mid twenties (26) but it took more than a year for us to have DD1 so I do think we aren’t told enough about contraception/conception to make the important decisions when we are younger.

At 21, I was adamant that I would never get married or have children. I didn't meet my husband until I was 28 and obviously did change my mind about marriage and children in the end but not until I was in my 30's.

I wasn't ready at all to have a baby in my 20's.

DH was my 4th "serious boyfriend " all 4 had talked about timescales for marriage and children- maybe I just gave off those vibes ? Or maybe that's the way things were a bit more in the 90's.

Are you religious?
Do you or your partner come from the background where women’s worth is just having a husband and popping out kids?

You write in such a dissociated way, made me think there is a reason to it…

YABU

Although it might look to you that they're in a perfect position to have children you have no idea really. I remember friends asking me in my 20s (several years into marriage) if I will have children and I'd answer "I don't know maybe one day" which was my polite way of changing the subject because I didn't want to say that I was worried about my marriage, or later that we were having challenges conceiving. It would sometimes generate a "well don't leave it too long it might not happen straight away" response. They too would probably be talking about how naive I was.

Getting involved in other people's fertility is generally a bad idea.

Me ? Religious? Not at all.

I wasn't really interested in anything serious until I met my husband. Maybe it was because I was ready or he was just the right person, possibly a bit of both.

I would've ran a mile if a man had started talking about marriage and children in my early to mid 20's but then I did always make it clear from the beginning that I just wanted some fun. I was frankly after some good sex, nothing more. I was working crazy hours, partying, travelling etc and a serious relationship just wasn't a priority to me at that stage.

@SashaPearce can I ask why you're talking about 'the likes of Robert Winston' as though he doesn't know what he's talking about?

Robert Winston was a pioneer in fertility treatments, so it just feels that you're speaking dismissively of his wealth of hands on experience in this field. He's also not a journalist, although articles he writes may well be published in the Evening Standard.

He's the Emeritus Professor of Fertility Studies at Imperial College, not some journo hack who's making it up!

https://www.robertwinston.org.uk/about-robert-winston/

https://www.robertwinston.org.uk/subject/fertility/

He also knows no one can change sex, which is an additional positive in my book.

This is really interesting ( if a bit off topic) reflecting about how I could feel ready at 27. If you had asked me I would have said I had my fair share of wild youth. I think we grew up younger and I was in London which probrably added to that, by 24 when I moved in with DH I'd been to loads of clubs, seen tons of live music, been interailing and to be honest slept with plenty of guys. I'd been doing all that for the best part of 10 years by then, I was a doctor so I couldn't go out much anyway, I was ready to settle down.

I would much rather women waited to meet the right person and had happy and stable relationships than rushed to have kids with any man in the pursuit of fertility.

I would much rather they had the opportunity to develop a career when they wanted rather than panic and procreate just because of people telling them they need to before they turn 30.

Yes reduced fertility is potentially an issue but that’s a risk some women are prepared to take. And that’s ok.

I loved my twenties. I wasn’t a party person. But memories of travelling, fun times with flatmates and being carefree and spending time with friends is something I treasure to this day. My kids have now left home and whilst I still have a fun and fulfilled life, I do still worry about them and cannot be as mentally carefree as I was at 25.

Having kids in my twenties did not cross my mind. If my junior trainees ask my advice about when to have kids I always say don’t do it in your twenties. I won’t change my mind on that.

I would hate to go back to a world where women feel they have to pop out kids asap. No thanks. There is so much more out there for them to do.

It is interesting. Of course, the biggest difference for me was that I simply just wasn't interested in any of that and wasn't even sure I even wanted it for most of my 20's.

I don't think I would've made a good parent in my 20's. Many are of course but I'm glad I waited.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conception/4813284-how-long-did-it-take-in-the-end

Perfect example posted this evening

OP I have the same feelings as you. I don’t give my opinion (which would be to consider their fertility earlier rather than later) when my friends make naive statements. I listen and empathise but privately I do worry for both my SILs (married to my brother and my husbands sister) who are both the same age as me and both want children and both have long term partners but happy to wait until late 30s and have ‘lived more’ and will ‘do IVF’ if they have any issues

Yeah but if you had done that you could have come on this thread and been really smug about the fact you're a lawyer/doctor/academic (other name drop worthy career) and how you'd already met your partner by your early 20s and bought a flat (and managed to do that in London!/other expensive city) and had kids in your 20s (maybe early 30s but let's not get carried away) and were now able to judge all us poor old crones who were silly enough to have fertility problems/make different life choices.

But alas, you didn't and can only offer this much more balanced view

I mentioned earlier on that I successfully had two children in my thirties and that I'm currently pregnant with my third.

However, I will definitely advise my daughter to start a little bit younger than me (if she wants children).

I had a lot of anxiety that it wouldn't work out for me and I don't want her to go through the same. That stress and pressure is not a good place to be in and I want to protect her against that, if I can.

What's the alternative though? Sometimes the time isn't right until your 30's. It is a risk but there are also risks that can come with having children at a younger age too.

Should women force themselves to feel ready in their 20's even though they could potentially be better mothers in their 30's when they might actually feel ready?
Should they have a child with someone who might not be the right person for them but, hey, at least they aren't 35?
Should they concentrate on their career later in life instead?
If so, should they just not worry about finances even though they may be financially better off in their 30's?

Yeah, perfect example of male factor. What does it have to do with freezing eggs?

You said upthread that your parents babysat while you went out and partied and now you’re saying you got it out of your system by 24 and are in a career that didn’t afford you opportunity to go out much even if the grandparents were babysitting.

Anyway, we digress.

I think you’re fortunate that you definitely knew you wanted children and when you wanted them (I mean this sincerely). Like the PP, marriage and kids was honestly the last thing on my mind in my 20s. I would have got the ick from any guy talking about it while we were dating!

Basically, people are different 😅

It has been an interesting discussion though.

It’s an assumption that you will have normal children as well. If I had known before that I would have severely autistic children with learning difficulties I would have never bothered. The stress and toil it’s had is unbelievable. There’s too much of a rosy view of babies and children.

I know who he is, but your devotion to promoting him via no fewer than three internet links is touching. The pieces I’m talking about were journalistic articles for a general audience, not academic ones. It’s not unusual for academics to do both. I explained the reasons for my feelings about him in my post.

Agree @Cadburysucks

Incidentally @DespairingALittle

For context purposes…

What career path/position are you and DH in by comparison to your friends and their partners?

How supportive have your friends been to you during pregnancy/post childbirth? Have they been the sort to not invite you on nights out, plaster glam pics on fb, visit to see the baby out of courtesy (making it obvious they’d rather be plastering walls)?

The reason I ask is your attitude doesn’t come across as supportive or respectful of their choices.

So I’m wondering is there any underlying jealousy of their position/potential position or if they have been inconsiderate/unsupportive of you when going through such a big change in your life?

Exactly. Kids can be wonderful for some people. But it’s by no means guaranteed.

And we know there are plenty of women who feel trapped by having kids before being financially stable. And they can end up dependent on abusive partners.

Having babies can affect mental health.

Being a parent needs lots of thought and nobody should rush into it.

Your situation sounds challenging. I hope you have some support.

Starting training as a doctor with young babies is incredibly arduous. You need loads of family support. And accept that you won’t see your kids much when doing nights etc. It’s very hard to do all the postgraduate training exams when balancing on calls too. I can see why most doctors choose to delay child-rearing till later. It would be far from my first choice option as a newly-qualified doctor.