To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

I do think adults have a responsibility to education teens on fertility to some extent. I received 0 info on this from parents and school, and was surprised when I realised the true ins and outs of fertility and the importance of not leaving it too late. There's a real lack of education in this area.

I agree that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything.

I also agree with a pp who said that women should have children when they are ready, for some that will be in their 20's and for others it will be in their 30's.

I absolutely wasn't ready to have a baby in my 20's, at that point I was certain I wouldn't have children at all.

Biology is a bitch.

That’s a shame for them, but most women in their 30s do not have fertility issues, nor does it justify OP being a busybody towards her friends.

https://slate.com/technology/2020/08/fertility-cliff-advanced-maternal-age-outdated.html

this certainly isn’t the only article I’ve read saying the same thing

Yes something similar here… 90% of my friends (who are age 32-36) haven’t had children yet but want some in the next few years (some saying maybe 4-5 years) and seem unaware that it may not be straight forward

I disagree. I think the way we have organised society is a bitch. It shouldn't be the norm to have to cram everything in, work and education wise, in our peak childbearing years.

This is true, there is not much in it. Egg donors can be aged up to age 35 for this reason.

As someone who needed IVF in their 20's. don't be so superior @DespairingALittle you can have trouble at any age, and not because you were selfish either. Women are well aware of their need to choose to have children on both societal and biological times scales. It's in every newspaper!

None of that is particularly relevant to what I said, but there are usually financial and time management barriers to going to uni with kids which is why it’s not a very popular option.

To expand on what I did say, everyone I know (other than literally one person) has gone to uni at 18/19, and most of them have them stayed in education or training until their mid-20s. It doesn’t usually make sense to have a baby in the middle of your PhD or training contract and it’s harder to get into grad schemes when you’re not in your 20s. That’s pretty much why maternal age at first baby tends to increase with education level.

None of that really matters to the main point of course which is that a) your friends are making the best decisions for them and don’t need your sadness and b) most women are able to conceive in their 30s just fine anyway.

Anything is possible but many people may not want to do it that way. I would say MOST people wouldn't want kids and work and a degree given the choice.

Apologies - it was actually more in response to @Blimeor ’s point about needing more support for higher education later in life! That’s the trouble with all this quoting.

For the record I don’t think that ttc at 33 is massively different than 29 but it’s not a secret that by 39 the picture is very different! Many seem to have interpreted that I think that all women should have babies under the age of 30 which is not the case!

Im not sad for my friends now and I hope they don’t have trouble whatever age they ttc but would be if they have issues regarding fertility- like any friend would feel sad for their friend in a tough situation.

Absolutely- in fact this is a great reason why if you know you want kids and you are with the person you want to have them with etc then perhaps delaying isn’t the best idea because you aren’t likely to know until you try! Anyone can suffer infertility at any, simply the likelihood increases.

Agree, I didn’t say it was the optimal choice (I don’t think it is fwiw) - just countering a PP who said

“Part of the problem is education is easier to access (and free!) when you're young. There should be more money made available for people to train later in life. So if you want to have kids earlier you won't lose out on those opportunities.”

which is simply an untruth - you have the same right to higher, degree level education later in life provided you meet the entry requirements.

The difference between 29 & 33 is time to start fertility treatment if it's needed when it still has a good chance of working. Start at 33 try for 2 years, your 35 when you see your GP then 18m NHS wait list, then tests etc you could easily be 37 before your 1st IVF round vs. 33 if you started the whole process at 29. That's the difference.

I had a PhD by the time I was 24. So I could very easily have had babies then!

That’s a good point - I hadn’t considered it that way. More simply just the actual stats of how likely you are to conceive naturally, rather than the potential knock on if you do find out you would need treatment.

I was a doctor at 23, bought a flat at 26 and had a baby at 28 (v. unfashionable) We weren't rich (for a longtime) but had a home and good jobs. We had loads of energy (and family help) pregnancy childbirth and sleepness nights barely affected me.

Lol. They’ve made a difference choice to her, which isn’t the same as a lesser choice. It’s far more mature to wait until you are ready for a child, than it is to rush into having one.

Who knows what the future holds? They may go on to have children, or they may not. They may decide they don’t want to have them at all.

Agree with this 100%

Society is organised on a male timescale. It makes perfect sense for men to get their qualifications and work their way up the greasy pole before having children. If men had a limited fertility window, I can guarantee that the whole of society would be differently organised.

@orangemagnolia I do agree with you. But then I also think parents should be educating their children on the basics of life such as cooking, budgeting, saving, pensions etc and helping them plan out their lives too.

A lot of this education used to be in home economics which is now sadly sidelined to make way for STEM/IT.

Nothing against STEM, what I trained in, but life skills and practical planning are lacking in most now.

I agree with this. I and my friends are in the bracket OP's talking about - "career women" in early 30s who have the money for egg freezing basically.

PP are talking about "well, it's not your business if they don't want kids". But they do. They look around and see messages from women in our industry saying now is the time to go hard in your career, it's sexist to assume women will want kids so the women's group at work shouldn't talk about pregnancy, everyone around us is posting pics from Greek islands looking amazing...

Then their boyfriends are usually in the same bracket, with middle-class ideas of how it's irresponsible to have kids unless you're married and own your home, but of course you'll want a nice wedding which takes 2 years to plan and have you seen house prices in London...

They don't even ALLOW themselves to want kids. The egg freezing is the only way that tiny hope is allowed to make itself felt.

That does involve meeting the person you want to be with at a younger age and actually knowing you want children by then.

^ This

Agree again.

Equality for women in access to the workplace has not taken into account equality of reproductive rights.

Hi OP, Speaking as first time mum at 43, I can tell you that I started TTC at age 37, and I knew I would have a struggle due to having only 1 functioning Ovary and endometriosis. I just wasn't ready till age 37 to try for kids regardless, I did not feel remotely maternal before then and really did not know if I wanted kids at all. I was fully informed of the risks of putting TTC off and the fact that it would be more difficult for me. With hindsight, I wish that I had frozen my eggs in my late twenties / early 30's. It took me a long time to conceive, 7 rounds of IVF in 6 years and 1 miscarriage. Although it all turned out ok for me, given my experience, I think freezing your eggs in your 30's is a practical and proactive thing to do if you are really not ready to have kids for 3 or more years. Of course, It may not work, that is the risk that you take. From my experience of IVF and egg freezing, one of the most important factors to conceiving a healthy child is the age and health of the egg itself, therefore some women will have a better chance of conceiving with frozen eggs taken from them at 30 vs. trying with fresh eggs at 38 or 40. Lastly, everyone knows somebody who has had issues TTC, it is more common now - probably due to the average age of having kids rising to 30, so I think most women these days are really not that naïve about this.