Feel guilty about what 19 year old daughter said to me

[sickout]

My 19 year old girl is regularly ride, verbally abusive and can be downright nasty to me and her siblings.
Dad left a few years ago and she's never recovered.
She refused school, refused to get out of bed, refused to do chores .
It has been a horrendous time.
She is now in a place where she still Ives at home and is about to do exams.
I can't believe she is actually doing them such was her anger and school refusal.
She refused counselling or any intervention besides the GP who basically told her to pull herself together or take the support offered.
Her anger and refusals have never stopped her from socialising, holidaying or spending time with friends.
Believe me, I tried everything to support and manage her.
She had turned into her father.
Lacks empathy, selfish and very aggressive and verbally abusive at times.
But only to us in the home.
My other two children have SN and they simply irritate her. She has no input into family life unless it involves holidays, nice food etc r whatever she wants to do.
She is a taker.
It saddens my other children and I very much.
I have tried discipline, taking money away, taking phone away, talking, asking her aunts to talk to her , school involved , GP, psychologist etc .
Nothing has worked.
She is so untidy and has no respect for the home of anyone's belongings .
I love her of course but at times I do t like her behaviour. I'm disappointed at times and she can shock me .
When she is verbally nasty, I feel triggered . I freeze normally. It's like being squared up to by her father . My youngest child with an has started to do the same .
Last night she started again and out of nowhere I said that I would not tolerate being verbally abused by her , that she had turned into her father and that she needed to leave my room.
She was visibly shocked and very hurt.
It stopped her in her tracks .
She cannot stand him either and his verbal abuse and shouting and criticising frightens her.
I feel absolutely awful.
She said that it was a terrible thing to say and she was very hurt.
What do I do here ?
The truth is that she is a carbon copy of him and all the family therapy and work has been centred on dealing with his anger and emotion outbursts and negativity .
Thanks

When you're criticised it doesn't help you change.

Sometimes it does. Sometimes a wake up call like this is exactly what’s needed.

I don’t think that is fair at all. What has happened is that ALL the children were damaged and the signs of abusive tendencies in ALL the children including the 19yr old are due to 16yrs of being raised by an abusive father.

I think it is very wrong of you to blame damage so obviously caused to ALL the children by years and years of an abusive dad on the eldest child. Why is that? is it because she is a girl?

I think that was what she needed to hear and it may be enough for her to realise that her behaviour is not on. You need to explain that yes, you meant to shock her because you are feeling the same way that your ex used to make you feel. Good luck.

About bloody time. Yes her Father left, Yes she is angry, hurt and all the rest but that does not give her the right to a downright vile nasty piece of work. Sometimes people need to hear the truth. Sit her down today and say it is time to clear the air and have a fresh start of respect and fairness. Explain she is now an adult and after her exams she will have to find work, pay her way and do her fair share of chores and that if she feels she can't do that she will have to make other arrangements.
As for your other children starting to copy her, stamp down on that behaviour today, don't allow it to turn into the situation you have now.

By any chance is the SN either autism or adhd? Emotional regulation is a huge challenge for many autistics - my included.

Ignore all the the people trying to blame you and make excuses for her awful behaviour.
Well done for standing up for you and your other children.

Stop the guilty feelings and stop allowing her to treat you like shit.

Some children need to be treated in a certain way that goes against your instinct, but it's got to be done.

Good point. 👍🏿

So she is hurt and upset.
Now she knows how you have felt all this time.
Do NOT apologise.
Her behaviour has been unacceptable for some time and the fact her sibling is starting to emulate this has to be the line in the sand.
You are doing the right thing... sit down calmly and explain that this is not going to be tolerated... you have bent over backwards to support her IN SPITE of the way she has behaved towards you but now it stops.
Your house ... your rules.
At nineteen she should be more of a flatmate with occasional guidance than a stroppy teenager. When she goes off to college or whatever no-one, NO-ONE will put up with crap like you have, so she will have to control her tantrums. As she is well able to do... since she stopped when you likened her to her father... she CHOOSES to behave like this.
No more.
Stay strong... you will be fine.
And setting this example is good for the others going forward.

Sounds like you did the right thing.
She quite clearly knows how to behave outside of the house and treat others with respect , she should treat you and her siblings in the same way. Sometimes a bit of tough love is needed. The truth hurts.

As for your other children starting to copy her
I seriously think she and the others are all copying their Dad and he is the source of all of the behavioural problems in all the OPs children. I don’t think we can fairly blame the eldest child for abusive behaviour that OP has literally described as a “carbon copy” of their Dad’s behaviour. Abuse is learned.

It's not ideal but in heat of an argument end of tether and as a shock measure it probably won't do long term harm - if the OP address it with such that the DD does that is causing issues and why ie focus on the DD poor behaviour not blaming her for being her father's daughter.

What Op doesn't need to do is minimize problems daughter cause to mollify her - which it sounds like she done in the past.

Though given how negative the OP I do worry the OP will just criticize and go over and over past history rather than putting in boundaries now and focusing on how they move forward.

The Op DD is about to sit exams - it is stressful time frankly messy room and lack of chores aren't my focus at the moment - basic behaviour norms are expected still mainly politeness to other household members - but beyond that I cutting them massive flack - pick your battles territory.

It's not a great time to throw emotional grenades but it's done now and it's time to set reasonable behavioral expectations and boundaries while offering reassurance to DD that she is loved though behavior need to stop.

I always protected my kids from him and took the brunt so to speak.
Once he started to pick at them, criticise them and be nasty, I stepped in and told him in front of the kids that in no way in earth would i stand over his abuse towards them . I had often spiken to him privately about his parenting and treatment of the kids . He did not listen so I took it into my own hands and was punished for it as I was undermining his authority. He never had a kind word for them. A useless nasty bully I'm so glad I'm rid of .
Our house is so much more peaceful but there .
I was not in a position to leave then.
Their dad was rarely there.. working, avoiding family life etc so they weren't exposed to much at all. Their memories of him are as man who was either working or when he was had back pain or a headache or in bed.

She does not have special needs or anything flagged at all .

I've sought and had therapy for parenting her and then as a solo parent and that has helped to a point .

I thank those for their advice to sit with her today and talk about it but I would still like some recommendations for how best to deal with this explosive anger, rage, disrespect, lack of care or empathy for anyone but hwrsefl ?

As for bringing them up in an abusive home, I did my best and am proud that they are not more fucked up tbh.
I expect those contributors know little about the psychology of trauma or abuse .

My problems are present but I know so many in such positions whose children have addiction, depression, antisocial behaviours, criminal convictions etc so while I'm not mother of the year, I am doing everything in my power to support them to becoming fully functioning adults

I would have a chat to her. I would say that you are sorry that she witness her dad abusing you. That must have been hard and confusing for her. I would explain that children that live through abuse sometimes become abusive or tolerate abusive behaviour from others. I would tell her that you love her and dont want either scenario in her future. You will support her to access therapy when she is ready. However. You will not tolerate her shouting, swearing or bring disrespectful to you or her siblings. It's okay to feel angry or irritated but it's not okay to show it that way. She needs to take space and come back and talk about stuff like an adult.

Unfortunately, she sounds very damaged and she will have to except therapy moving forward of she wants to heal. She needs to decide when she is ready to do that.

Moving forward I wouldn't engage with her at all of she is shouting, swearing etc. She isn't in the head space to be receptive..

Oh for god’s sake its not abusive to tell a 19 year old that their actions have consequences and that if they behave terribly to people the people around them are eventually going to respond. Comparing her to her father is not abusive but instructive. Kids often don’t understand that they are exercising a choice when they act and that repeated choices to be cruel turn them into a cruel person. She needs to realize this and OP’s comment hopefully begins a process of self reflection.

I have to agree. Dd didn’t choose her father or choose to be brought up in an abusive household for the first 16 years of her life, having abuse role modelled and normalised to her as a method of communication.

It’s learned behaviour.

She is genetically half of him and might feel it’s inevitable she’ll turn into him. It’s potentially laying the ground for a life time of self loathing and conflicted emotions about her parentage.

However, you can come back from this. Have you ever spoken to your dd about your relationship with her father and acknowledged her perhaps conflicted feelings towards him. She’s old enough to have an adult conversation.

My parents divorced and my mother was always very vocal about how she hated my father, he was a monster etc.

I tended to side with her but was actually very confused as I had grown up with a dad I loved and had some good (if naive childish) memories of him.

^This

OP, your dd clearly had issues years before now. I wonder if you’ve always thought of her as being like her father and that’s just come out of your mouth now. It’s a shame that you and her didn’t get the intervention needed but it’s unfair on her to expect her to have been able to cope with what sounds tricky circumstances in her childhood.

I wonder if she has SN as well.

I would consider reading “The book you wish your parents had read” by Philippa Perry as a starting point.

When you speak to her, tell her that she is not her father, nor is she turning into him. She is her own self. But she is copying his behaviours.

Remind her of the way he used to speak to you. How he used to act to you. Does she really want to behave in the way he did? Tell her how much you love her. Remind her of the things that you DO love about her. But say that you're scared when she behaves in the same way as her father. You want her to be the lesson that she can be, rather than reflecting what she grew up with.

You also need to tell her that you recognise how hard it was for her to grow up on that environment, and that it's natural for children to subconsciously copy the behaviour they see at home. But that now she's old enough to look at how she behaves to others and change it.

I was in my early twenties when my husband pointed out a behaviour of mine that was exactly like my abusive mothers. It absolutely horrified me. But I knew he was right. And I'm a very different person now.

Maybe but there needs to be an acknowledgment of how we cannot can solve ourselves if our children grow up to become adults we don’t necessarily like. It doesn’t happen overnight.

I have noticed that parents seem to jump straight to blaming their child as soon as they hit 18+, without a period of self reflection.

Yes, completely agree with telling her some home truths but comparing her badly with her father is not on and must sting, I wonder why you did that? It's quite revealing.

I thank those for their advice to sit with her today and talk about it but I would still like some recommendations for how best to deal with this explosive anger, rage, disrespect, lack of care or empathy for anyone but hwrsefl ?

Start out saying you love her - say it a lot find specific examples and talk of consequences to rest of household that she may have missed and try and avoid her getting defensive or just accusing her of not caring and ask her how you can all avoid similar situations in the future - that you all have same goal for life to run smoother for everyone.

Do the rages have any cause that she is aware of - is there some support she needs - she 19 she must have some insight and what could be done within reason to support her - and if not how she plans to move forward as current situation isn't working for you and your DS.

OP I think you are minimising your children’s experience of their fathers behaviour. Regardless of how well you thought you were protecting them, they will have known what was going on. He did exhibit angry and controlling behaviour around them - I am aware you tried to put yourself in the middle, but the damage is done.

Saying “they could have turned our worse” is again, minimising their experience.

You need to listen to and, without minimising, acknowledge what is being said.

Well it's true and she needed to hear it. If she hates what her father is like then she should know how it feels to be at the receiving end, with her being the aggressor.

Harsh but true and she needed that wake up call. Don't let her guilt you into thinking you've done something wrong.

If your younger children have SN, it is entirely possible that she may have an undiagnosed neurodevelopmental condition. If she appears functional in other settings that does not necessarily mean she is choosing to behave that way at home, and is able to control it, simply that she is masking to such an extent in other environments that her anxiety is sky high and she's in a permanent state of fight or flight acting out at home.

The alternative is that her father's abuse has left her mental health very damaged. I don't blame you for what you said in the heat of the moment (my 6yo can be horrendously verbally and physically abusive so I know how hard it is and i myself have behaved less than perfectly at times) but it does now need addressing with her. I am sorry I have no more advice to give you, it sounds like you've tried lots of things and you are at the end of your tether. This is made even harder by the fact that she is now an adult.

She does not have special needs or anything flagged at all .

This sounds unlikely given family history and her behaviour. Yes she may have a trauma response, but her anger and aggression is to such an extent is it possible she's had missed support at school etc ?

I know she is refusing help now but just thought it might help in understanding her needs and attitude better.

I despair over some of these responses.

It is never appropriate to compare your child to an abuser, or disparage them on the basis of their parentage, something they can't control.

I grew up in an abusive household and heard this all the time. Thrown at us by our mother everytime we did something 'bad.' It's wrong. Even once it is wrong.

I would apologise for comparing her to her father and take some of the suggestions from other sensible posters on this thread of how to clarify your statement and respond going forward.

That's NOT to say I think you shouldn't take a firm line and ought to put up with being verbally attacked.