ParkRun and Transgender record breaker

[PennysLane]

Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too.

He attempted to murder the HR Manager of U.K. Athletics after he investigated his eligibility to compete as a woman. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska )

I have enjoyed Parkrun on several occasions with my children, I’ll not be doing it again until they get this sorted. If at all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/22/parkrun-self-id-male-runners-smash-womens-records/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/23/transgender-murder-parkrun/

..provide a first step to competitive running for those that want to move onto to XC or 10k events etc etc

I'm not sure becoming aware that a woman can be beaten in the female category by a male, with all the advantages of having a male body, is going to encourage anyone to move into competitive running.

If it were me, I'd be thinking it would be pretty pointless.

Some people on this thread are spectacularly missing the point. It doesn't matter whether you think a time is important, a lot of people do. But only males currently get a guaranteed fair time. How is this not blatant sexism? Talking of which, women volunteer at parkruns more than men. I think a boycott is in order!

Women matter too from an inclusivity perspective. If TW can't accept their maleness maybe they need help. That doesn't justify making women's spaces mixed sex.

Yeah why does the inclusivity only ever go one way?

That’s the issue. Women are at the bottom of the list so we disappear from a range of activities. The lists get topped out by males

Even in community spirited, low level park run

They might not "feel" included but women would actually not be included in their correct position. Can you tell me why males' feelings are considered more important? If trans people really cannot bring themselves to register under their correct sex (why as we're constantly told that no-one is denying sex?) then create a third category of "no sex registered at enrolment " and let women have their own category. I really don't understand how anyone can argue that women should just not bother with competition! Talk about going backwards.

Sorry, messed up quote. That was in response to @LiquoriceAllsorts2

Exactly!

I wonder what the reaction would be if trans men were taking male sporting records?

It certainly wouldn't be met with "oh its only a bit of fun" men would protect their spaces.

PR need to introduce a trans category asap.

Not true, your time is your time regardless of what others do. Where you compare to other women may not be fairly represented but your time is still fair.

I’m thinking of changing my park run details to 80 year old man , maybe that will provoke the men into action.

So we still lose out? finally got there.

I’m thinking of changing my park run details to 80 year old man , maybe that will provoke the men into action.

Get your 20 year old son to identify as a 50 year old man, even better.

We're meant to be doing it for the joy of exercise, fresh air and community fun run reasons, because its not a race or in any way competitive ...although surely this applies to tw as well so it shouldn't matter what category they place themselves in....?

If it isn’t competitive why do they give places and category placements? But now they only apply to men.

Why not,as on the day it doesn't matter - all it will be doing is showing up when your son goes to check his score -nobody runs in categories.
Not been for a while, can't remember if it shows your age next to your name and time?
Even if it does why would anyone give a toss- we actually have a man around that age running, why would anyone care if they were slower or faster than him?!

It matters becuase parkrun provide this data and a lot of runners do use it to track their progress. If you make the data available you have to do what you can to make it accurate (with the caveat that it cannot be vertified but policies can be in place to discourage anomolies)

As I said Mr Monkey uses his to track his progress when marathon training, usually as he is going for a good for age time. I suspect a lot of men who don't see an issue with biological men running in the female category would suddenly get very annoyed if the 50 + runner times were lumped in with the under 30s.

As I said Mr Monkey uses his to track his progress when marathon training, usually as he is going for a good for age time

This is nothing to do with the debate at hand though. If you're tracking your progress then where you are in the field is immaterial; it's about your own time and splits on the same course, week after week.
For example. If I'm tracking progress and I run 21:00 one week and am first lady; but run 20:30 the next week and am third lady because I've been beaten by two trans women, I might be (highly) irritated at not being first, but it bears no meaning at all on my actual times or progress. I've still got 30 secs faster.

I've run fairly slow parkruns and been first lady, but on other occasions I've been quick and been beaten by proper speedsters. That's just the way it goes.

On a completely separate note - and this honestly isn't meant as a dig at you @Ginmonkeyagain - I find it really odd on exercise threads when people pop up all the time to say "my DH says this" or "my DH says that." There are plenty enough experienced runners/cyclists/climbers/lifters/ etc on MN not to need people chipping in with their DHs tips.
And we don't tend to do it on the cooking/cleaning/crafting threads to anywhere near the same degree.
Do we still have a subconscious sense that men are somehow more expert in the exercise and fitness space than us, and feel the need to offer up their wisdom rather than our own?

Well I am not a runner or someone who partakes in parkrun, he is a very very experienced runner so I was just using him as an example of someone who values the data parkrun produces and does need it split by age and sex.

My sport is martial arts - where I have lots of views on single and mixed sex competitions

I do fencing where we do have mixed training and some (grassroots/fun) mixed competitions. My experiences have coloured my views on picking priorities which are very much focussed on contact sports and knock out tableau based sports where opportunities are directly affected by opponents rather than single "heat" mass participation events where my competitive experience is not directly affected.

If I'm running wanting an age group position eg V40-44 I'm unlikely to be able to tell for sure if the person in front of me is a V40, V50 or still a senior at 39 and 364 days... So I just run my best and either beat them or not. No one wears a category marker so it doesn't affect my on the day experience. In a knockout competition the person I play can remove me from the competition!

Yes, I think an important aspect of this is whether you see parkrun as a community grassroots movement that gets people moving and volunteering that just happens to be timed (so you can compete against yourself and/or your age grading (which is unaffected by this, btw, as it's calculated against record times in affiliated events where the sex/gender rules are different). Or if you think that, because it's timed, it must be competitive.

I think parkrun HQ is of the community mindset

If you want properly competitive events (where you have much more accurate time-keeping, and chip as well as gun time) there are oodles of others to choose from.

Isn't it the case that parkrun times are no longer accepted by organisations such as RunBritain for their rankings? Because the times are so notoriously unreliable?

Isn't it the case that parkrun times are no longer accepted by organisations such as RunBritain for their rankings? Because the times are so notoriously unreliable?

Where did you read that? I can see pr on RunBritain right now.

Why are there so many posts along the lines of “stop complaining women your ego doesn’t matter”. My ego matters just as much as any man’s.

From use of the site, and not seeing any (or rather seeing none from recent years) and drawing what appears now to be the wrong conclusion

I think that’s a very uncharitable interpretation.

what many people are saying is that while, yes, races are timed, its ethos is meant to be open, and parkruns are not intended as races.

It’s like complaining about your school’s under 10s football matches not using VAR.

It’s like complaining about your school’s under 10s football matches not using VAR.

No it's not.