ParkRun and Transgender record breaker

[PennysLane]

Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too.

He attempted to murder the HR Manager of U.K. Athletics after he investigated his eligibility to compete as a woman. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska )

I have enjoyed Parkrun on several occasions with my children, I’ll not be doing it again until they get this sorted. If at all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/22/parkrun-self-id-male-runners-smash-womens-records/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/23/transgender-murder-parkrun/

I think the difficulty here is that a trans person would not feel included if they have to put down their birth sex. Given they can say prefer not to say then hopefully that fixes it but I don’t know I imagine some still wouldn’t be happy.

I am not saying what is right or wrong here, just the issue from an inclusivity perspective.

He is in prison, yes.
Doesn't change the facts though.

Isnt it obvious? Remove him from the female records.

That’s not true at all. It’s a race. It’s ranked. I’m often in the top 10 females for my local PR and have been trying to make top 3 for years. Men would obliterate me. It matters to me

Based on him being transgender or based on him being in prison? Removing him based on the crime would create lots of issues as there would probably be lots of other people that need removing. In terms of transgender parkrun state that they don’t check, of course they can change that policy but is back dating it appropriate, it would also annoy lots of people. Maybe all the super fast women need to go and do this run and beat the record.

Would you want the f/m removing? You are proud that you are in the top 10 but if the gender is no longer included you would lose that.
genuinely asking out of interest based on suggestions by previous posters that the m/f designation on the results should be removed.

Based on him being transgender or based on him being in prison?

Based on him being a man, it's got nothing to do with his gender identity. It's not difficult to understand the issue here.

Maybe all the super fast women need to go and do this run and beat the record.

Oh so they just aren't trying hard enough to beat a man? How original.

parkrun should be asking for your sex. People lie in all sorts of categories and it's not up to them (employees or volunteers) to police that.

everything else is just bunfighting anyway - nobody is going to be able to police it so the results should be name/time only and people can work it all out for themselves.

He's a known man who is a violent convicted criminal, so in this case it would be easy to know that he isn't female.

The issue mostly under discussion is whether or how it’s possible for Parkrun to police that.

With Jeska it wouldn't need to be policed. They could at least remove that record. No, they don't want to, but they could.

I think this is the key thing.

While this record is maintained it is clear that PR don't give two hoots if men identify as women and get the fastest run times.

It matters more that these records are maintained to preserve the feelings of the males than the feelings of the women who work hard to achieve fast times knowing that their speeds or place in the top ten or top three women could be surpassed if a fellow decides that he wants to run 'as a woman'.

And this is ultimately how we know who 'trans rights' really favour, certainly not women.

They’re keen to push the fact park run isn’t competitive and that it doesn’t matter how fast you run or even walk it so surely they shouldn’t have records like this anyway?

I honestly don’t think it should even be timed. I went twice last year but found it really overwhelming, just too many people pushing in front to try get there even a few seconds quicker. It’s supposed to be fun, not a race.

Maybe all the super fast women need to go and do this run and beat the record

Yes we need to ask Eilish McColgan to go to these events and obliterate the records! Or any other elite female runner like Steph Twell or Jess Warner-Judd. Any of the women who can manage a 16 minute 5k could do it in most cases.

Not the point of the thread but it started off as a time trial - being timed is the whole point of it.

The Gender Recognition Act recognises sports as a sex affected activity, and says that sports should be single sex. Self ID is not the law in the UK.
Sport
(1) A body responsible for regulating the participation of persons as competitors in an event or events involving a gender-affected sport may, if subsection (2) is satisfied, prohibit or restrict the participation as competitors in the event or events of persons whose gender has become the acquired gender under this Act.
(2) This subsection is satisfied if the prohibition or restriction is necessary to secure—
(a) fair competition, or
(b) the safety of competitors,at the event or events.
(3) “Sport” means a sport, game or other activity of a competitive nature.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/19

For those saying parkrun times don't count, they do count for UK Athletics. They are recorded on the "Power of 10" website, they do publish rankings for the fastest people and people have a ranking based on performances which include parkruns. If I do a fast parkrun time, my ranking improves.

And if I were eg capable of an 18 minute parkrun I would be ranked and so male-bodied people would push me down the rankings.

It does matter.

And the volunteers would know if a regular transwoman had beaten their course record. Admittedly they might not know if someone turned up who they didn't know and beat it and they only saw the record when they came to look at the results. But if Sian improved the record at Parke, they would know.

You can still have fun and race at the same time.
Without the competitive element (either between yourself or with others) I don't think parkrun would have been so successful.

What was your motivation for going? I'm not trying to be goady, but I'm wondering why, if someone wants a walk/jog/run there are more than plenty events around the country which accommodate them. Or just go on your own.

There are twats everywhere - elite sporting events, grassroots football, supermarkets, car parks.

If Parkrun wish to be inclusive of everybody without insulting and taking the piss out of women then they need to do away with keeping scores, having lists for male and female high scorers/record breakers etc.

It can be a non competitive, fun activity for all and everyone taking part just takes note of their own times/ personal bests and can compare against themselves or friends who take part if they want to.

However if Parkrun wish to have a competitive, public scoreboard then they need to stop condoning men who lie about their sex and compete as female and remove those records if they are reported to them.

Not a perfect solution but the fact they are currently condoning cheating says a lot about their attitude to women.

I suspect they don't want to get rid of the competitive element because for a number of regular park runners the competitive element will be what motivates them and keeps them interested in attending week on week.

So it appears that their solution is to continue discriminating against women and hope that most female park runners either don't notice or shut them up when they do.

To be fair, I have done exactly that, but it was a race, not parkrun, and it wasn't to do with transwomen, it was men running on womens' numbers. They checked and removed them from the results. I had seen the first lady cross the line, but she was 4th in the results!

So it appears that their solution is to continue discriminating against women and hope that most female park runners either don't notice or shut them up when they do

Or just ignore any comments made to them. It's nearly impossible to send them an email (like many other organisations) so unless you comment on social media and attract the wrath of the TRAs and the #be kind useful idiots.

As a pp said, women are not allowed to be competitive.

That happened to me too. I knew I was first (in my age cat), but showed as second as a man had run with a woman's number. It was all innocent, he just hadn't considered this might happen.

I wouldn’t remove the timed run.

Just add an open category and ask people to register by sex

It won’t solve everything but better than women at bottom of list when considering who to take into account

Has anyone heard of Ryan Webb? I mean, fuck me sideways!

No need to remove anything, PR s are brilliant, help get people active & provide a first step to competitive running for those that want to move onto to XC or 10k events etc etc

But this row has the potential to destroy PR's.

All thats needed is 2 Trans categories, if TW/TM don't enter them and chose to run as a woman/man, then that should just be open to challenge, same as a non trans man, entered as a female, if no one complains, his time stands, can't expect a volunteer run organisation to be verifying everyone's result.

Just move with the times.. so to speak.