To ask what made your partner "step up"?

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I am really hoping this doesn't turn into a man-bashing thread, but here goes...

I am wondering if any of you have experience of your partner (or indeed yourself) deciding to "step up". What prompted this decision? Was it successful, as in, did it result in long-term change? Was therapy involved and did it help?

Basically, like a large number of other women, after our first child arrived, I felt like I was doing the lion's share of all the domestic duties. My husband isn't a horribly selfish person, but since the birth most of the time he just doesn't put himself out to help out. For example, he will not forgo drinking his coffee quietly while it's still hot in order to change a dirty diaper, wipe sticky hands, bring down washing, etc. He has no compunction about leaving DC to whine and cry that he's hungry, because DH wants to finish watching an episode of his show before he deals with dinner. He leaves the dishes to do "in the morning", when having a cluttered and messy kitchen makes life harder in the mornings.

Before kids, there were just not so many of these time sensitive tasks and he doesn't seem to realise that this is life with small children - that a lot of our ability to do exactly what we want when we want is on hold until DC is more independent.

However. He really, truly believes he is being an equal partner. He wants to be an equal partner. He thinks he is doing the lion's share, and thinks my expectations are either being met or are unreasonable. By any measure, I am doing more, but he just doesn't accept this. To me, it really feels like he has the mindset of a young guy without responsibilities and just has a bit of "growing up" (for want of a better term) to do, than that he is a bad, selfish, waste of space human. I'm just not sure how long I can deal with the current situation and am looking for hope.

I hear a lot about ExPs who didn't step up, and I hear a lot about people who never felt they had to, but I don't think I've ever read a thread where people talk about successful personal growth in this way.

So I am wondering, were any of you in a similar situation? Did you have a partner who thought they were sharing the load (or did you yourself), until the scales fell from their eyes? What prompted that realisation, and did it stick?

And before it is brought up, we are both open to couples counselling, but we have not yet had a lot of success with it.

Mine improved during lockdown as I had long Covid and really couldn't do much. But it was too little, too late. I don't care any more and I really don't know why I'm still here.

I wish I'd ended it years ago but we had couples therapy which kept us together at the time as things improved (or I felt better as I got things off my chest?). I wish we'd never had it because it made it much harder to leave again afterwards (just going through it all again...).

I don't know about you but for me his lack of care for my feelings just killed it for me. It's just much harder starting again when you're older.

I think its almost impossible to get someone who thinks they do a lot to change and I would warn against what @Hollyppp did unless you have a plan as you'll end up doing all if it regardless if you are working.

The thing for me is that I always put the children first, he always puts himself first. You cant change that selfishness.

At 7 months postpartum DH's friend had a word with him and told him to take a look at himself and sort himself out. He changed (for the better) overnight and has been amazing since then (now at 11 months).

Before that he laughed when me and my mum would point out how selfish his actions were and obviously he is perfect in his own mother's opinion.

I think it needed someone further removed to point it out to him but still close enough to him that he took it seriously.

The first 7 months were miserable and I'm still reparing the mental damage that he caused.

So he thinks he does more than you do, and you think you do more than he does?

And 99% of MN concludes that you must be right because he is a man and he is therefore assumed not to be pulling his weight.

Maybe he is, or maybe he isn't. I don't personally think there is enough info to be able to comment.

Nothing worked, i even had a spell in hospital for surgery and it showed ME how much i did but not him. I left. He's hoovered in another sucker now.

This, thats the unavoidable difference

We definitely have this discussion fairly frequently, because life shifts and changes and the demands on us are different week to week. So whilst we have set tasks, which helps, sometimes he or I have a busy week and the other one has to pick up the slack. Some stuff you have to let go of if it's not done to your "standard". I also let the consequences play out - if he chooses to finish his coffee before changing a poo nappy, and it leaks, well it's on him to do an outfit change then isn't it? I don't jump in and say oh look now there's a leak and I'll have to change the baby and it's all your fault etc. If I've just cleaned the kitchen and he makes a mess, I'm not going in cleaning it after him. Going back to work after my first mat leave was a massive shock for us both and it took a big crying breakdown from me for him to realise he needed to do more, and us both to realise we needed to be less expecting of equality - actually sometimes it's 60/40 or 80/20 because it needs to be. Things did change then. I'm now on a second mat leave and my eyes are open to the future a bit more, and I make it clear that I'll not be able to do all I am currently doing and work full time and that we will need to reevaluate when I go back to work.

When he starts arguing, every single time say “ok, the important thing to me isn’t to establish that changing nappies takes 12 minutes not 5, it’s that I feel unloved and taken advantage of - do you want to help find solutions for that?”

What an awesome friend pizzapizza

That doesn’t sound weird at all. Someone you trusted let you down, that sounds like betrayal to me

Best way I got dh to be hands on (and now an equal parent) is lots and lots of time without me, with the baby/kids.

I wasn't precious about doing things X way, more "just do it and learn". He did every single bath time from day 1. He trimmed the nails. About 2 weeks post birth he said he was heading into the city centre to pick up some shopping so I put the baby in the pram and said "oh she will love the trip out, bottles are in the bag". He admitted when he got back he was terrified but now he had done it once that was it. They went out every weekend day for a good long walk.

When I went back to work it was shifts so he did multiple weekday evenings, collecting from childcare, and all day and night Saturday while I work. I didn't prep anything ahead of going he just had to crack on.

I did nights out and trips away and what not and he just did it because he had to.

When I went back to work and he was suddenly alone with the baby several days a week (we both worked ful time compressed hours) he had no choice but to step up with the childcare.

Do was never terrible about the housework, but there was definitely a long spell where he did some but no where near half. There were several conversations about how it was unfair and made me unhappy, and he just made more of an effort. At some point my job went through a spell of being super stressful, and I inevitably did a lot less, and he just stepped up.

I told him that I wasn’t going to earn more than 50% of our household income while doing 90%+ of the housework and childcare.

I agree with a pp - this is what men understand! My friend said something similar to her husband - “I’d love to be at home with the kids, but you need me to shoulder the economic burden. So then you need to pick up your fair share of the household burden.” And he got that, in a way constant “you haven’t done x/y/z” wouldn’t sink in.

It’s hard to judge anyone else’s situation. I do think there’s a big difference between not doing his share and not meeting your expectations. I think it is important to remember that. I remember DH bringing DD to see me in hospital; she looked like she’d been dressed at a jumble sale, whereas I was always very particular about her having nice clothes. But - taking a step back - did it actually matter? She was clean and clothed. Just because I like something done in a certain way doesn’t make it “right”. Or the only way. Same with your example of finishing his coffee before feeding a child - if it’s a baby due a regular feed, that’s one thing - but if you’re talking about a three year old whining for a snack, then it’s not unreasonable to expect him to wait for a couple of minutes.

I have 3 children with my husband and he is a wonderful father. But, frankly, he wasn’t always.

For the first year, with my first baby, it felt like he did nothing. He barely even changed a nappy. And he complained about so much.

Anyway, he stepped up around the 11mo mark. What changed was that I sat him down and said

“I’m not coping. I’m not happy. You need to help more. If I don’t have space and time to enjoy my life and enjoy being a new mother, I am scared I will resent you for it forever.”

And I meant it. At the end of the day, this time with your kids IS precious. My eldest is off to secondary in September and the years have gone so quickly. If my husband had left me there in the trenches all alone, I would have never forgiven him.

So, for us, it was talking about it. I realise this isn’t possible for everyone else.

My DH was bad in first year of DC1 but then had a big life event that made him realise his priorities. That, and actually seeing me juggle in lockdown made him step up. He just didn't see it before. He still doesn't see changes - like extra admin when DD went to school, but he does respond well when drawn to his attention and he is grateful.

Unrelated, but another tip (I am not anti bf - I bf both mine). If your child is 18 months and will settle for dad in the night but needs you to feed him to sleep instead, that sounds like a great case for night weaning - dad could take the reins for a week solo and you can break the habit, benefiting everyone. Good dads will take this on for the benefit of their partner's health and well-being. Just a thought.

To give another perspective, my husband was like some on here, stepped up after conversations and, practically, does loads. However, it's often not done with good grace but moaning and grumbling and generally being moody about how little free time he has. So the resentment is now on both sides I fear. Given your husband is argumentative I wonder if you'll end up in the same situation.

A common theme is also that posters have had to accept lower standards. Why is it that many men will "step up" but not as high as their wives?!

NRTFT, but like a few other PPs, I became unwell and unable to do anything, including looking after our 18 month old or go to work, for about 4 months. He had no choice but to step up and he did it immediately and without complaint. Been that way ever since.

Just a thought OP, and I am not saying this is the case for you, but I realised afterwards that I had unconsciously dominated the decision making around DC, and as a result he felt like he couldn't do things his way without me correcting him, so it was easier to let me lead/do the lions share, despite me voicing my frustration. I Still see this a bit in my friendship group. When I was ill, I had no choice but to step back, loosen control, and he had no choice but to learn how to do it his way.

The result has been an incredible bond and relationship between DH and DC, and a truly equal partner in all things parenting and household. Wasnt easy for so many reasons, but it was a game changer.

I told him to pull his fucking finger out or I'd divorce him.

OP,

I mean this kindly.

He is not a good man, husband or father.

He's a selfish lazy one who dismisses, lies, argues relentlessly until you give up.

Not a good man at all.

His arguing is to grind you down and shut you up.

He has the energy for it only because he does so little.

You sound lovely but it is so clear that your marriage is in real serious trouble.

You don't feel the same about him because you can see a really selfish unattractive side, that would leave his child in discomfort because he simply hasn't the moral compass to do otherwise.

This changes women when they see it in a partner.

All he wants to do is argue the point, any point.

Unfortunately you are realising he is a dud, and certainly not a loving partner and father.

He will do the least he can get away with.

Sit with your feelings.

Sort out your contraception and get counselling with the view to splitting if he has zero interest in sharing the load.

It's likely he never loved you as much as you cared for him, that is often the case with lazy selfish duds.

But you need to spell out that your feelings have changed for him, ask does he want to fix things or go for mediation on how to split up 50/50 with the children.

His answer will be telling.

You could of course limp on for a few more years but you will quietly despise him for being who he is at his core, a selfish man.

I'm really sorry.

I went back to work after 10 years of not working, I started out as part time (this was for me) and I more or less continued to do 99% of the household tasks. My problem is I didnt have a proper conversation, just assumed he would do shit, in my eyes you see something needs doing, do it. Not sit and look at it and then wonder why there are no dishes to eat off, because no one has done the washing up.

I am now still part time, but am working overtime ad hoc, before this happened, I sat down and we had a proper conversation about how things were going to work, I try and get done what I can in the morning, he finishes off in the evening, but in my eyes more importantly, he is doing alot more of the work with DS and having that mental load to do.

If after having conversations with him and nothing changes, I think you have to assess what you are going to do, in the first couple of months of working and him doing nothing, the amount of resentment I felt was unbelievable and if we hadnt had that conversation and nothing changed, I would have left.

This. I think your standards might be quite high. We don't need to prioritise children all the time, sometimes it's good for them to learn 'mummy/daddy will do that when they've finished their coffee/book/tv show."

My children will come to me and say they want dinner and I say "okay I'll make once I've done this." Waiting another 20mins or so shouldn't be an issue. It sounds a bit like you want him to drop everything he's doing and do non-urgent household chores that he might otherwise get to in his own time?

Obviously I things like nappies need doing straight away.

Well, it worked. So I’m fine with being a horror.

It does depend what kind of man you’re dealing with. My DH is a good person. But he was raised in the most traditional household imaginable - after dinner, his mother clears the table and picks up his father’s dirty plate and cutlery from under his nose to take them to the sink (his father doesn’t even pick up up off the table and hand them to her!) That relationship dynamic left an imprint on my DH, as I think it would on anyone. But his father did shoulder the entire economic burden of the family for forty+ years, as well as providing for his and his wife’s retirement, and that was stressful and frequently unpleasant. I think that’s the bit my DH was missing in his mind. Basically, if you want a housewife and SAHM, you’ve got to work to pay for it. But if you want to share the economic load and enjoy the lifestyle that comes from having two earners, then you’ve got to step up on the home front.

But obviously Rule 1 from the Abusive Man Playbook is to get his wife/girlfriend pregnant and to give up paid work. So it’s not a tactic I would advise for everyone.

It's incredibly difficult to night wean when you're run down and exhausted. You fight the world all day, you fight your partner to do anything to help, then at night you're expected to fight your baby too. It's gruelling.

Actually dad is the best person to "break the habit" because he simply doesn't have boobs and the child knows that. Mum trying to nightwean alone can take weeks of sleeplessness and tears all round. Dad sleeping in with the toddler for a few nights will quickly break the habit with far less upset.

Nothing worse than a woman who values her own time.

My most successful has been a list of chores which were swapped weekly.

So cooking, shopping, kitchen one week
Kids - all wakings, nappy changes, baths, meals the next

Then Saturdays both clean the house at the same time. One vacuums and mops the other does bathroom etc

Work out your necessary jobs and split them up. As you swap weekly no one can complain that the other has it easier.