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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Not an AIBU but if someone starts a thread about infertility please…

114 replies

PriamFarrl · 21/05/2023 15:43

….. do not do any of the following:

  • Ask if they have considered adoption.
  • Tell them to relax.
  • Tell them about someone you know who was told they couldn’t have children but then went on holiday/booked a round the world cruise/started a new job and found they were pregnant.

This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the childfree/childless women who are sick of hearing this shit society.

OP posts:
Coldilox · 21/05/2023 16:47

When I was going through fertility treatment someone I knew well told me that sometimes just relaxing and taking a break can lead to it happening naturally.

Im married to a woman.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 21/05/2023 16:50

I massively agree OP

In fact I would like these sort of comments to generate a 48 hour ban and there to be a sticky somewhere explaining why.

Original poster
PriamFarrl · 21/05/2023 16:50

Coldilox · 21/05/2023 16:47

When I was going through fertility treatment someone I knew well told me that sometimes just relaxing and taking a break can lead to it happening naturally.

Im married to a woman.

And I’m assuming you are a woman too? That is genius. Did they know that when they said it?

OP posts:
saraclara · 21/05/2023 16:51

Squidwitch · 21/05/2023 16:42

The worst one said to me was: you're trying too hard, just relax. I wanted to say, yes I hear that works for cancer too, just don't worry about it and it will go away. Strangely enough relaxing never did cure my secondary infertility.

Tell me about it. After being told to be positive almost daily when my DH was diagnosed with incurable cancer, the absolute nadir was when I went into work to tell my boss that all treatment had been withdrawn and he was expected to die within a couple of weeks. I was told (abruptly) not to be so negative and that miracles happen. Over a decade later, I'm still angry with that person.

Coldilox · 21/05/2023 16:52

PriamFarrl · 21/05/2023 16:50

And I’m assuming you are a woman too? That is genius. Did they know that when they said it?

Show quote history

Sorry, yes I am. And the person who said it knew very well.

In her defence, she did realise what she had said pretty much straight away, and was mortified. And I didn’t take offence. But it shows how it’s often trotted out without thinking.

darjeelingrose · 21/05/2023 17:07

teaandtoastwithmarmite · 21/05/2023 16:35

I have said the third one before only so people don't give up hope. It happened to me. I never managed to have another thpugh. I definitely didn't say it to be insensitive

It doesn't help though, does it? People rarely say these things with a view to being insensitive, but it still is. Stories where the person ends up having six kids after a loss are similar. They don't help.

darjeelingrose · 21/05/2023 17:10

towriteyoumustlive · 21/05/2023 16:20

YABU.

People are trying to be helpful.

And when someone posts something and misses out very important information, then people respond to what is written.

So if someone posts about fertility problems and IVF not working, then it's a fair assumption that they are then looking for help of where to go next.

If they actually mention they have medical issues, are only interested in a biological child etc... then it would limit the number of "unhelpful" responses.

It's really unfair to miss out very important details then have a go at those trying to help based on what was actually written.

You clearly are one of those poster. So convinced that you know best that you "read between the lines". Sometimes there are no lines, mostly people don't want help. They want sympathy and understanding. There are doctors and social workers if you want to know about the medical or social side. Enough with the "fair assumptions". Try making no assumptions.

Squidwitch · 21/05/2023 17:10

That's truly awful, I really do think people do just open their mouths and breathtaking garbage comes out. I also think when people say be positive, it effectively ends the entire conversation as where do you go from there. I think, maybe wrongly, that it's people's way of changing the subject as you are intruding on their sunshine and fairies world view.

Ylvamoon · 21/05/2023 17:13

I usually don't post on these threds as I have mixed feelings about the whole issue... but I agree with you, stupid advice is just that, stupid and often more hurtful. Over and out.

ExtraOnions · 21/05/2023 17:15

It’s a public forum, you don’t get to dictate what people do / don’t write.

Aprilx · 21/05/2023 17:16

towriteyoumustlive · 21/05/2023 16:20

YABU.

People are trying to be helpful.

And when someone posts something and misses out very important information, then people respond to what is written.

So if someone posts about fertility problems and IVF not working, then it's a fair assumption that they are then looking for help of where to go next.

If they actually mention they have medical issues, are only interested in a biological child etc... then it would limit the number of "unhelpful" responses.

It's really unfair to miss out very important details then have a go at those trying to help based on what was actually written.

I would certainly assume that they are trying to be helpful and were not trying to deliberately hurt or antagonise a woman struggling with infertility.

The point is that it is NOT HELPFUL. It has been said over and over again by women in this position that it is hurtful, insulting, patronising, irritating etc.

So please stop, think a bit harder and refrain.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 21/05/2023 17:17

Also, I feel there is significant ignorance about modern adoption

People don't simply surrender a baby anymore because they aren't married to the father and their family threatened to shun them as was common for decades.

Children available for adoption now have usually been removed from abusive and neglectful parents at an older age and often have a difficult profile of additional needs as a result

Not everyone is built for that

But plenty of posters seem to think anyone can "just" adopt and receive a healthy newborn baby by first class post. Hmm

isthewashingdryyet · 21/05/2023 17:17

And to add in to this, as being child free is often by choice and is chosen on purpose, please don’t tell us we will change our mind, when the clock starts ticking, and we will regret it later. We won’t.

I have utter utter sympathy for those who want children and can’t have them, and would never tell them to hold out hope, but we also don’t need the lectures.

sorry if anyone is hurt by this, I don’t mean to cause offence at all

basically, this boils down to ‘think before you speak to anyone and be respectful of what is happening in their life, as an unwelcome but well meaning comment can hurt or hours’

Original poster
PriamFarrl · 21/05/2023 17:20

ExtraOnions · 21/05/2023 17:15

It’s a public forum, you don’t get to dictate what people do / don’t write.

I’m not dictating anything. I’m advising people that making comments like that isn’t helpful.

OP posts:
Original poster
PriamFarrl · 21/05/2023 17:24

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 21/05/2023 17:17

Also, I feel there is significant ignorance about modern adoption

People don't simply surrender a baby anymore because they aren't married to the father and their family threatened to shun them as was common for decades.

Children available for adoption now have usually been removed from abusive and neglectful parents at an older age and often have a difficult profile of additional needs as a result

Not everyone is built for that

But plenty of posters seem to think anyone can "just" adopt and receive a healthy newborn baby by first class post. Hmm

Yes. Gone are the days when you got a healthy newborn that was given up (willingly or unwillingly) by some young woman who had ‘got herself in trouble’.

OP posts:
Usetherightgearforthehill · 21/05/2023 17:24

Squidwitch · 21/05/2023 17:10

That's truly awful, I really do think people do just open their mouths and breathtaking garbage comes out. I also think when people say be positive, it effectively ends the entire conversation as where do you go from there. I think, maybe wrongly, that it's people's way of changing the subject as you are intruding on their sunshine and fairies world view.

I actually think the intruding on the sunshine and fairies thing is accurate

I once had a colleague complain to HR that it was inappropriate for me to talk about my infertility at work because it was upsetting for other people to have to hear. But she was eavesdropping on a private conversation with my manager and had had to go to some lengths to eavsdrop

This was also a woman who talked about her pregnancy non stop when she was pregnant including details we didnt need to know that were incredibly personal announced to the whole office.

She definitely wasnt happy at me intruding into the sunshine and fairies thing

BodegaSushi · 21/05/2023 17:25

ExtraOnions · 21/05/2023 17:15

It’s a public forum, you don’t get to dictate what people do / don’t write.

Some people really want to justify their dickish behaviour

Usetherightgearforthehill · 21/05/2023 17:26

isthewashingdryyet · 21/05/2023 17:17

And to add in to this, as being child free is often by choice and is chosen on purpose, please don’t tell us we will change our mind, when the clock starts ticking, and we will regret it later. We won’t.

I have utter utter sympathy for those who want children and can’t have them, and would never tell them to hold out hope, but we also don’t need the lectures.

sorry if anyone is hurt by this, I don’t mean to cause offence at all

basically, this boils down to ‘think before you speak to anyone and be respectful of what is happening in their life, as an unwelcome but well meaning comment can hurt or hours’

I totally agree with this I think that the childfree by choice get as crappy comments as the childfree not by choice

And come in for an equal bashing on the christmas/easter/summer etc are for children so you are selfish if you dont drop everything and work overtime threads

thedogisstaring · 21/05/2023 17:38

Missingmyusername · 21/05/2023 16:43

Not being goady but my mum had me after ten years of trying (after a holiday). I’m going back decades so no IVF. Sometimes it just happens. Most people are trying to be positive, rather than helpful. If you open up a conversation about trying to conceive it’s really hard to gauge what you want 😣 from others. Is there a correct response?

My friend and her DH couldn’t conceive, nothing wrong with either of them that tests found, they opted for IVF and have a DS.

For anyone suffering with a fertility issue and/have exhausted all avenues, I truly am sorry 😔

The correct response is "I'm sorry you're going through that, it's a really shit situation". No helpful advice required.

After 10 years of TTC repeated MC and fertility treatment I had to accept being childless. I can absolutely assure you that if you told me the miracle story about your mum it would not give me hope it would only make me feel more of a failure and more fed up.

Cunninghamsarah · 21/05/2023 17:47

I totally agree, OP. I have a close friend who went through several miscarriages after a long period of infertility. She was devastated and the whole terrible situation was made worse by the thoughtless, utterly insensitive crap comments people felt the need to make. All she needed to hear was ‘I’m so sorry’.

towriteyoumustlive · 21/05/2023 17:47

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 21/05/2023 16:22

But do you seriously think that anyone going through IVF hasn't thought about adoption already.

It's never a helpful response.

Show quote history

Maybe not adoption (I never mentioned that) but for lots of people going through ivf then success stories can give hope, and hope is better than despair.

I know many clinging to hope. They are realistic it might not happen but when they find others that go through similar then it gives hope.

Usetherightgearforthehill · 21/05/2023 17:50

towriteyoumustlive · 21/05/2023 17:47

Maybe not adoption (I never mentioned that) but for lots of people going through ivf then success stories can give hope, and hope is better than despair.

I know many clinging to hope. They are realistic it might not happen but when they find others that go through similar then it gives hope.

Show quote history

Hope when you are going through IVF is one thing

But what you often get if you stop or talk about stopping IVF or even if you are going through is is people going:

Oh I had a friend who went through IVF and it didn't work for them but then they went on holiday and had a baby

That doesn't help anyone

missushbbb · 21/05/2023 17:51

What are people allowed to say then? Why post anything if no one is allowed to say anything in reply?

missushbbb · 21/05/2023 17:51

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 21/05/2023 17:17

Also, I feel there is significant ignorance about modern adoption

People don't simply surrender a baby anymore because they aren't married to the father and their family threatened to shun them as was common for decades.

Children available for adoption now have usually been removed from abusive and neglectful parents at an older age and often have a difficult profile of additional needs as a result

Not everyone is built for that

But plenty of posters seem to think anyone can "just" adopt and receive a healthy newborn baby by first class post. Hmm

I really don't think anyone thinks that

Usetherightgearforthehill · 21/05/2023 17:56

missushbbb · 21/05/2023 17:51

What are people allowed to say then? Why post anything if no one is allowed to say anything in reply?

If you think after being told not to suggest adoption, tell someone to relax or suggest they go on holiday that you are not allowed to say anything then that reflects on you more than the OP etc

Have you never considered "I'm sorry to hear that, I'm here if you ever need to talk about it"?