To move to Italy

[Italyoruk]

Hello,

long time lurker. Probably outing but I’m so stuck with what to do…

Due to brexit my husband had to move to Italy. He’s been there a year and things are rocky between us due to lack of intimacy and him not seeing kids often and me doing everything as means us flying there or him here. The only option is divorce or uproot the kids and move to Italy - this long term thing isn’t working. The kids are half Italian but don’t speak much of it. Youngest is about to start at a highly selective secondary school which he worked for 2 years to gain entry and he’s very excited and cries if I mention moving. Eldest is about to start GSCEs but extraordinarily bright and will do well anywhere even if we move mid year. Eldest doesn’t like change but I think would love it. Obviously my elderly parents are here so that’s a consideration too. They’d be devastated if we moved.

cost of living is going up here, I think we would have a better life there. But will my husband and I reconnect? And is it detrimental to the kids to uproot them at crucial stages…. What if they hate it? Are they too old to relocate? I’d have to give up their selective places if we moved, so it is not like we can “try” it and move back if we hate it.

please help. And please be kind. I’m very fragile right now.

thank you

My main concern from reading this is that it sounds like a very desperate last chance situation and you kind of need it to be more solid than that if you’re making such a move.

How desperate is he for you to come? What work is he putting in? Is he moving heaven and earth to see you all? Is he taking as much A/L as possible to see you and find the perfect home for you all?

This is only my experience from living in Europe and teaching at an international (private) school. Children go backwards initially, then take time to catch up before they begin to move forward, I’d say allow 2 years.
The GCSEs or equivalent might be ok as they’re in English but the curriculum might not be the same and the other students are well cemented in their friendship groups.
The younger the children, the easier they adapt, your 11 year old might find it difficult.
But does separating your family outweigh the difficult settling in period? Look at extra tuition possibilities to offer your children extra support and be prepared for tears. I found some of the schools less than sympathetic towards new arrivals.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'd do it because long distance is just completely impossible IMO! Amazing that you can keep your job, and your parents aren't properly elderly yet. It's a cheap and pretty quick flight to Italy as well I'm thinking, not like travelling to the Caribbean or Canada or something. So all in all I'd go for it. Especially if secondary school not started yet.

Yes it's a big uproot for your kids, no denying that but a H can't move and just leave his family behind. That's madness!

But tbh, and you know your DH, is he very serious about making this work and does he understand the implications long term of school changes, etc? You need to have a really open honest conversation.

You need to stay. Life in Italy is terrible for children. They will have no opportunities whatsoever. It is very insular despite what the stereotype would have you believe. It would likely be a very lonely and depressing existence.

There are arguably more opportunities in Italy than there are here. I have never found it to be an insular country, either.

I would go. Imo it would be more important to me to have the family I chose united.

Would your children be likely to go to Italy anyway? Either to be with their father now, or after their exams?

Eldest is about to start GSCEs but extraordinarily bright and will do well anywhere even if we move mid year It's a very different school system than the U.K., you said they don't really speak the language, so even for the brightest child this will have a massive impact on their education, unless you're planning to put them in an international school.

Sorry, just saw the private school thing. Well, it's a big adjustment culturally for teens/pre teens, but people make it work. We moved to Spain when DD was 7, so it's been much easier for her to integrate etc, but if they're going to an international school then it shouldn't be too much of a problem. I'm sure job prospects etc will be good going to a school like that too.

Your probably basing your opinion on fluffy stereotypes and what you have seen on tv. Real Italy is not like that. Real Italians are far from the welcoming mamas that films portray. My comment is based on real life and experience.

OP, could you leave the children with your parents for a few days, and spend some time in Italy with your husband? I'd treat it as a 'make or break' weekend, with some very frank chat on both sides. You both need to be completely honest about how you see the move, and if you even want it to happen. You could even take the time to visit some schools. This is what I'd do before even considering uprooting my children.

Hi OP, sounds like a very tricky decision. I live in Italy and am married to an Italian myself, we have two young DC and marriage is on the rocks. I’m planning to take DC back to UK for a year to start with. DH can’t move because of his job but can do extended visits. Not exactly the same situation as yours, but I understand how complex and hard it all is.

I personally think in your place I would look at finding a way to stay in the UK and lower costs. Not only because your kids are settled, but think about yourself and what you want as well.

Your husband’s employment situation is understandable but how keen is he really to make the relationship work? He sounds pretty disengaged from your post. If your marriage is in a bad place, what are the chances of you ending up living in Italy on your own? Would you be happy with that? Bear in mind that getting a divorce in Italy, if it came to that, would be so much harder than doing so in your current position.

I’ve lived in six different countries as an adult and Italy has been by far the hardest to settle in. You probably know all about this, but I find the need to be completely fluent in the language, the bureaucracy (especially if you’re not an Italian citizen) and general xenophobic and misogynistic attitudes here very difficult to deal with. I often feel like I’m at a major disadvantage compared to DH. Plus he has his family and childhood friendship group, whereas I have to fly to see mine and they can’t babysit etc. Will he share the load enough to compensate for you losing the rest of your support network?

The cost of living depends on where in Italy you’re moving vs where you are in the UK but I find the whacking great taxes on everything means life is also pretty expensive here. Like you I’m a freelancer and had to nearly double my rates when I moved here, since more than 25 percent of my income goes on social security payments alone.

The important question though is what do you want? Where do you see yourself in five or ten years? Your kids will no doubt do well at either school and will be able to choose the uni they want in either country. The answer to the question seems to lie in how you honestly see things going with your marriage and what sort of life YOU really want.

Fucking LOL. I am also basing my statement on my own experience. Having emigrated twice already I’m quite aware of not relying on stereotypes.

What ‘real Italy’, incidentally? It’s culturally a very diverse country, the obvious divides being between the north and south. The culture of Venice is distinct from the culture of Rome, which is again distinct from the culture of Turin or Milan.

Hi @amberisola

Do you think you will stay in the UK, then? Leave your husband? PM me if you’d like to chat.

We had such good times together and I would like that again. 😞

I think this is possible and a good idea. Thank you

Children are not treated as pariahs in the UK @SerafinasGoose as well you know. This type of hyperbole doesn't help anyone. It would suffice to say that you've found that there is a more of a child welcoming culture in Italy.

You can't decide your life on what might be when your parents are elderly. It's not abandoning anyone. Millions of people move around.
If you wnat to do something and instead put yourself in place of future carer and do nothing you will absolutely resent it when the time comes. Even more if you will not be needed....

I agree eith pp about going to see your husband and see how you two will be. Kids might gain. Nothing is ever easy, but honestly, the parents tjimg has to go aside. My mum actually fully supported my moves away. She wants the best for me, she didn't make me to be her carer at old age. You have family and own kids, thinks what's best for them and you.

Also I would totally move yo Italy but none of us speaks the language etc and I am just silently envious happy (lighthearted) of my friend who married in there😂

As you can see, people have very differing experiences of Italy. Like everywhere, it has good and bad points. I personally wouldn't uproot the children at this point for such a challenging move. However, I can see your dilemma and wish you luck.

Being bright here does bot mean your child will do well or settle easily in a new school in another country. Friendships are so important for children's mental health and overall happiness and it seems unfair to move your kids on the off chance. What of it all goes tots up? Then what? You will have to move back with no home to go to and more disruption. Seems your husband upped stick without a backwards glance and did what suited him. What arrangements has he suggested long-term because if he had left my family with no long term plan I wouldn’t be dropping everything and uprooting the kids. You need to talk to him. Before you go he needs to be willing to find a family home and schools. His reaction or willing ness to share the load will be a big teller in whether he cares if you go or not. If things are rocky and you are keen to still go and be the ones compromising and uprooting all aspects of your life, then no way would I be selling the UK home for at least the first year. If his job is really so good he should be able to support his family and if it is not then clearly he has suited himself and the family are not part of his plans. I mean who moves country and tales a job that only suits themselves and not their family needs?

Your eldest may be very bright, but realistically if he has to complete his schooling in what is currently a foreign language, will he get the grades for university?

and most importantly, how isolated will you be?

On balance OP, I wouldn't move. Your youngest cries when you mention it. Your eldest doesn't want to. If they are happy with their life in the UK and there arent any concrete improvements in their life from moving (eg significant lifestyle change) other than 'weather' and similar then I dont think it's fair. Because the main reason seems to be for your marriage. Which at this point (given they dont want to move even though theyd be closer to their dad) is a. Something you want not them and b. From your updates, sounds like it may not work out anyway.

A few things to think about that may change my opinion though -

Were the issues in your marriage purely because of the distance or do they pre date him losing his job? If they pre date him losing his job then no way I'd move, as it's unlikely to make a substantial difference

How much effort has he put into keeping in touch with and seeing his kids since he moved? If he flies back as often as he can, if he calls them to help out with homework, if he facetimes daily then there is clearly a valuable relationship there and more of an argument for going

How would you fare financially, emotionally and how would the kids get on if you move but end up splitting?

I think you have a rosy idea of your second child getting into an international school mid year.
The well regarded one near me is fully enrolled, accepts new kids in January for September and costs 2,000 euros per month without activities.
Post Brexit he would be regarded as a non-EU immigrant by the state school system and may well be sent back a year to learn the language.

All this with no savings?

personally i would jump at the chance to emigrate BUT do you or your kids even speak italian?? because i would have to learn the language before i moved anywhere

I think you would be giving up a lot and your security. I don't think you should do it.

Do you expect your kids to go to Uni in the UK OP? If so you need to be resident in UK for 3 years before they start to qualify for home student fees, otherwise you will have to pay international student fees which are much higher.
If you have one kid about to start GCSEs next year this is a serious point to consider.

No. I wouldn’t, if the main reason is to reconnect with your DH.
You can’t uproot your family, move away from your support network for a relationship where one half sounds like he’s already checked out?