Page 2 | To move to Italy

Italyoruk · 2023-05-21T12:58:30+00:00

Hello, long time lurker. Probably outing but I’m so stuck with what to do… Due to brexit my husband had to move to Italy. He’s been there a year and things are rocky between us due to lack of intimacy and him not seeing kids often and me doing everything as means us flying there or him here. The only option is divorce or uproot the kids and move to Italy - this long term thing isn’t working. The kids are half Italian but don’t speak much of it. Youngest is about to start at a highly selective secondary school which he worked for 2 years to gain entry and he’s very excited and cries if I mention moving. Eldest is about to start GSCEs but extraordinarily bright and will do well anywhere even if we move mid year. Eldest doesn’t like change but I think would love it. Obviously my elderly parents are here so that’s a consideration too. They’d be devastated if we moved. cost of living is going up here, I think we would have a better life there. But will my husband and I reconnect? And is it detrimental to the kids to uproot them at crucial stages…. What if they hate it? Are they too old to relocate? I’d have to give up their selective places if we moved, so it is not like we can “try” it and move back if we hate it. please help. And please be kind. I’m very fragile right now. thank you

ReachForTheMars · 21/05/2023 14:33

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:30

I know. And it’s so tough. I just need some help in deciding if uprooting the kids is worth it?

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It's not worth it IMO. They are doing fine with him there and have made it clear they dont want to move. I am angry at him on your behalf because rather than splitting up with you he has decided to move country and wait for you to be the bad guy.

JMSA · 21/05/2023 14:34

I'm not sure I could do it to my kids, particularly the one with the much longed for school space coming up.

TheThinkingGoblin · 21/05/2023 14:34

Pugdogmom · 21/05/2023 14:30

Re your elderly parents, Italy is a 2/3 hour plane journey and has plenty of flights.
If you decided to go and it didn't work out , would you have somewhere to live if you came home? As someone else said, your relationship might not survive a long distance relationship. I can't speak for schools.

DD lived there last year, and much as I love the country, I wouldn't live there. Bureaucracy drives me mad, and am not a fan of their current government ( although ours isn't great either tbf), and the heat in summer is incredible in the cities, but you already know that, and it's not about what I think.

Are your parents well enough to visit?

I am in a similar long distance situation (by choice) and have to comment here.

Your direct family comes first in these situations.

Your parents and their health should not factor into this discussion. At all.

They are adults. They are fully capable of dealing with their own issues.

FairAcre · 21/05/2023 14:35

if you do go maybe keep your house and rent it out. At least until you see if things do work out.

Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:38

Violasaremyfavourite · 21/05/2023 14:27

You airily say that your son is bright and will do well even if you move midyear! This is bearing in mind he doesn't even speak much Italian. And what about the youngest having worked hard for the high school place? How is he going to cope with starting secondary school and learning in a language he doesn't know? I think you are being very cavalier with your children's futures.

What if you sell the house, move to Italy and it turns to custard within two months? Surely your husband could look for a job in the UK?

This son does speak Italian. And the classes would be in English.

the hard work youngest son did for the school is basically the main barrier. I am not being cavalier at all. the school would be a private school with lessons in English. I agree with you though. For him to work so hard which was effectively 20% of his life is horrible to think about, and if he hadn’t gained entry then I’d probably have moved already. But he did. And my gut feeling is not to move. But I also want our family to be together 😢

The other issue is the eldest having been extremely unhappy at this same school. Awful bullying. Although it has been handled well by the school as they have excellent pastoral care.

I am seeking help in this decision - and I’m very fragile as either way it’s heartbreaking. So please don’t be unkind.

DH speaks fluent English and night work in a supermarket would not cover our bills - live in SE etc. huge mortgage, couldn’t sell etc.

he cannot get a job to cover our expenses in the UK. That’s not an option.

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notquitesoyoung · 21/05/2023 14:38

Sounds like a very difficult situation. Keep in mind that if Italy becomes the DC's habitual residence and things don't work out you'll only be able to bring them back to the UK with permission from DH. I would start by looking up how long you could all stay before Italy is considered their habitual residence and if time allows spend the whole of the summer holidays over there and try and live life as locals to get some idea of how things might be. Most importantly your relationship with DH & the family relationship.

Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:40

ReachForTheMars · 21/05/2023 14:33

It's not worth it IMO. They are doing fine with him there and have made it clear they dont want to move. I am angry at him on your behalf because rather than splitting up with you he has decided to move country and wait for you to be the bad guy.

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i know 😞 thank you

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Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:40

JMSA · 21/05/2023 14:34

I'm not sure I could do it to my kids, particularly the one with the much longed for school space coming up.

This is my guy feeling.

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So1invictus · 21/05/2023 14:41

Would the children continue their education in English, with UK exams? At an international school? Or IB? Or a private school but with Italian exams?

Cost of living is a red herring. I live in Italy (south) and we can only dream of what you pay for most grocery items (including Italian brands of pasta rather hilariously) in the UK. Our energy bills, phone bills, rubbish taxes, National insurance contributions, income tax, water bills and petrol are at least as high if not higher than the UK. How are the family's teeth? NHS style dentists non existent. You can go to the "convenzionato" one. Probably in another town and you'd still have to pay. Just not as much. My DD has braces. It's going to be 4000€. She was 16 when the treatment started. Ditto optician. Not free for children.

Have you got a house in Italy? Is it a flat? If so, add monthly building maintenance and cleaning onto that, plus all the irpef taxes.

Do you get on with your husband's extended family? Why do you have to go over there to see him? While he's been gone, what effort has he made to keep his relationship with you, and his children, going?

Now the good bits.

I wouldn't still be here if it was shit. I wouldn't still be here if I didn't think the quality of life (nothing to do with money, that's totally rubbish here compared to the UK, lower wages, higher costs) was, ultimately better. I don't have to wait 3 weeks to see my GP. I WhatsApp her and she says, yeah pop in. I have to pay £8 for 10 paracetamol though. (I don't, I bulk buy in the UK) if I need a scan or to see a specialist I don't have to wait for years. But I do have to pay.

Think very very carefully here. If you think moving to Italy will save your marriage, I think you might be mistaken.

Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:42

FairAcre · 21/05/2023 14:35

if you do go maybe keep your house and rent it out. At least until you see if things do work out.

I will have to sell. The monthly mortgage repayments are insane.

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Retire50 · 21/05/2023 14:44

I would not be moving happy settled children who are eager to excel in their current schools to a new system unless it was absolutely my last choice.

Give the youngest a chance to at least attend the selective secondary school he worked so hard to get into. You never know he may decide he would like to move to Italy after a year. The international private school in Italy will always be an option. The highly selective secondary school in the UK will not I presume.

Blondewithredlips · 21/05/2023 14:44

ReachForTheMars · 21/05/2023 14:29

I dont think if woll work, sorry.

Just from what you've written:

it seems bonkers he couldn't get A job here. It might not be one he wants, but did he try hard enough? Night shifts in a shop probably dont require high levels of spoke English (making the assumption that that night have been a barrier).

Why cant he try moving back?

What is he doing to make it work? Sounds like you are worrying a lot and he just went to Italy because it was easier for him.

You want to move for you but you know its disruptive to the kids.

I dont get the feeling he is that bothered to he honest. Sorry to be blunt.

In your shoes I'd start living my life as though I am committed to the UK and focus on the kids schooling with a view to considering moving there when the kids move out. If I could get past the fact your DH doesnt seem all that fussed about being a unit and appears to have opted out.

This

Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:46

So1invictus · 21/05/2023 14:41

Would the children continue their education in English, with UK exams? At an international school? Or IB? Or a private school but with Italian exams?

Cost of living is a red herring. I live in Italy (south) and we can only dream of what you pay for most grocery items (including Italian brands of pasta rather hilariously) in the UK. Our energy bills, phone bills, rubbish taxes, National insurance contributions, income tax, water bills and petrol are at least as high if not higher than the UK. How are the family's teeth? NHS style dentists non existent. You can go to the "convenzionato" one. Probably in another town and you'd still have to pay. Just not as much. My DD has braces. It's going to be 4000€. She was 16 when the treatment started. Ditto optician. Not free for children.

Have you got a house in Italy? Is it a flat? If so, add monthly building maintenance and cleaning onto that, plus all the irpef taxes.

Do you get on with your husband's extended family? Why do you have to go over there to see him? While he's been gone, what effort has he made to keep his relationship with you, and his children, going?

Now the good bits.

I wouldn't still be here if it was shit. I wouldn't still be here if I didn't think the quality of life (nothing to do with money, that's totally rubbish here compared to the UK, lower wages, higher costs) was, ultimately better. I don't have to wait 3 weeks to see my GP. I WhatsApp her and she says, yeah pop in. I have to pay £8 for 10 paracetamol though. (I don't, I bulk buy in the UK) if I need a scan or to see a specialist I don't have to wait for years. But I do have to pay.

Think very very carefully here. If you think moving to Italy will save your marriage, I think you might be mistaken.

Thank you. I think your last bit is very poignant. If it hasn’t worked in this last year…

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XelaM · 21/05/2023 14:46

OneFrenchEgg · 21/05/2023 14:20

Why did he have to move due to Brexit? I'm a bit confused why he didn't keep looking for a job here? Sorry if I'm being naive but I thought people living here could stay?

Yes, my brother is a German citizen and works in the UK

Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:47

Retire50 · 21/05/2023 14:44

I would not be moving happy settled children who are eager to excel in their current schools to a new system unless it was absolutely my last choice.

Give the youngest a chance to at least attend the selective secondary school he worked so hard to get into. You never know he may decide he would like to move to Italy after a year. The international private school in Italy will always be an option. The highly selective secondary school in the UK will not I presume.

Correct. I think this is our only option. This would then give us a chance to improve our Italian.

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TheThinkingGoblin · 21/05/2023 14:49

ReachForTheMars · 21/05/2023 14:31

I think he made a bad choice. At this stage of his life he should have put his family and the need to keep you together over his dream job.

Did he work during that 3 years or just burn through savings because he wiuldnt take a job beneath him.

Cynically, I wonder if he subconsciously spent the savings before moving to Italy as he was hoping to.

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This is a typical attitude that I see in the UK

The "take any job" mentality even if one is vastly over-qualified.

If you wanted to absolutely destroy your marriage that is the one avenue that would absolutely do it.

Being underemployed would generate immense resentment over time. And that doesn't go away.

CabernetSauvignon · 21/05/2023 14:57

How often are you and your husband seeing each other currently? Can you increase the number of visits you both make?

Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:58

He went for more junior roles but they gave the jobs to the numerous more recently qualified junior people. Most companies felt it was odd he was going for such junior roles. I have a lot of misgivings about how he’s has behaved on certain things. But he did try his hardest.

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CabernetSauvignon · 21/05/2023 14:58

Is there a possible option around your youngest staying with your parents so he can still go to the English school?

Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 14:59

CabernetSauvignon · 21/05/2023 14:58

Is there a possible option around your youngest staying with your parents so he can still go to the English school?

I can’t leave my youngest in the UK while I move to Italy. This is not an option.

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WheresSpring · 21/05/2023 15:01

I’ve also previously lived and worked in Italy. I’m sure I’ll be accused of huge generalisation but I must say that, whilst I’m very happy to go back on holiday, I’m not sure I’d want to bring my kids up somewhere where racism and misogyny is still such an ingrained part of the culture. Admittedly I haven’t been back for about 10years so I really hope it’s moved on. Also, your dh may well have got used to solo life - how useful/hands on do you think he’ll actually be with the kids if you head out to join him?… I’m really sorry you’re having such a rubbish time 💐

Mythologies · 21/05/2023 15:01

I lived most of my adult life in Italy and brought up my children there.
DM me if you have any questions

LadyLapsang · 21/05/2023 15:03

It’s a pretty big risk to take two children out of a good secondary school and move to another country for a rocky relationship. In four years time your eldest will probably be going to university if you stay where you are. Also, if you move, will you be stuck in Italy if the marriage breaks down? If you come back to the UK will it be without the children, will they then build their adult life in Italy? What about the cost of HE if your children no longer count as Home Students in the UK? I don’t understand why he can’t fly back every few weeks or once pm.

Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 15:03

Mythologies · 21/05/2023 15:01

I lived most of my adult life in Italy and brought up my children there.
DM me if you have any questions

@Mythologies i might DM you actually if that is ok. Thank you

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Original poster

Italyoruk · 21/05/2023 15:04

LadyLapsang · 21/05/2023 15:03

It’s a pretty big risk to take two children out of a good secondary school and move to another country for a rocky relationship. In four years time your eldest will probably be going to university if you stay where you are. Also, if you move, will you be stuck in Italy if the marriage breaks down? If you come back to the UK will it be without the children, will they then build their adult life in Italy? What about the cost of HE if your children no longer count as Home Students in the UK? I don’t understand why he can’t fly back every few weeks or once pm.

Thanks @LadyLapsang. It is a concern.

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