To move to Italy

[Italyoruk]

Hello,

long time lurker. Probably outing but I’m so stuck with what to do…

Due to brexit my husband had to move to Italy. He’s been there a year and things are rocky between us due to lack of intimacy and him not seeing kids often and me doing everything as means us flying there or him here. The only option is divorce or uproot the kids and move to Italy - this long term thing isn’t working. The kids are half Italian but don’t speak much of it. Youngest is about to start at a highly selective secondary school which he worked for 2 years to gain entry and he’s very excited and cries if I mention moving. Eldest is about to start GSCEs but extraordinarily bright and will do well anywhere even if we move mid year. Eldest doesn’t like change but I think would love it. Obviously my elderly parents are here so that’s a consideration too. They’d be devastated if we moved.

cost of living is going up here, I think we would have a better life there. But will my husband and I reconnect? And is it detrimental to the kids to uproot them at crucial stages…. What if they hate it? Are they too old to relocate? I’d have to give up their selective places if we moved, so it is not like we can “try” it and move back if we hate it.

please help. And please be kind. I’m very fragile right now.

thank you

What was the discussion like when he left? Was the assumption you’d do long distance forever or were you always planning to move with him? is the job he has stable and longterm? Would you stay in Italy for the rest of your lives?

Your relationship sounds very rocky and I wonder what he really thinks about it all. I think you all need to go and spend lots of time there, whenever you can. Stay in the areas where you’d love and see how your relationship is. It may be worth the move and you could give your children (and yourself) a year to see how it goes. If you are there longterm, your elderly parents could move out too for their retirement.

I think he is enjoying being solo. So it concerns me that if I get divorced, he will get to enjoy his solo life, with his new very well paid job, while I do all the slog here. At least if we are there, he will have to do his fair share. But then maybe he won’t and resentment will build…FFS. I wish this wasn’t happening.

Please do 😊

One thing to consider is that if you move out there and the marriage doesn’t work you may not be able to legally move back to the uk with the children. Especially as their father is Italian.

I don't think it's fair to uproot the kids. They're teenagers, old enough for you to start thinking about university. Moving away might take the UK option completely off the table depending on the residency requirements.

Also, what are divorce laws like in Italy, should the worst happen? Will you get a fair share of assets?

We stupidly didn’t have that discussion as my youngest was in the middle of exams for this selective school. The job is stable and long term. I think we would probably stay in Italy forever.

my eldest wants to go to an Italian uni - so he’s be there anyway!

the main stumbling block is even if we give it a shot - I have to give up 2 selective school places that they both worked so hard for. The eldest is unhappy there and having counselling though.

If it's any help on elderly parents, my SIL married an Italian and lives there. She would like parents to move there as well as care is cheaper - they can get a retirement visa. She has looked after a number of Italian elderly relatives and found the health care good and as I said the care cheaper - 24 hour live in caters for less than £20k a year which is much cheaper than a nursing home

My nephew attends an international school and is doing well. My niece is at an Italian school but many of the courses are taught in French so she will have option of England, France or Italy for university.

Both kids bilingual.

But it sounds like you're expecting to divorce if you stay in the UK. From the info you've given, you won't be able to keep the house and private school sounds unlikely as well.

Think about life in the UK if your DH paid no child maintenance. With him in Italy that could happen. What would life be like then? Then compare it to life in Italy if you divorce. Basically, look at the best case and worst case, and decide which is more likely and can you accept that as your possible future?

What's his living arrangements?

Where would you all live? How close is he to his family? How close are YOU to his family?

You know all those stereotypes about overbearing Italian families? How true is it for your husband's?

Has he said that he'd like you to come over?

Is the house in the UK in both your names? Surely the rent would help cover the mortgage? I own a house in the UK but rent here, as even if I sold the house in England it wouldn't cover squat here. On two decent wages here we'll never earn enough to buy.

But again, none of that really is relevant as if two people want to be together with their children, where there's a will, there's a way. Is there a will?

I work in a career where people move abroad a lot. I've consistently heard from colleagues that moving teenagers abroad to somewhere they don't speak the language, especially around exam years, is best avoided as they struggle to fit in. How motivated are they around language learning as for me if they enjoyed it I would think they would stand a much better chance of fitting in. If they're not keen then I'd think it's more likely they'd struggle, particularly if neither are keen on the move. Is there an option to take an extended holiday there (e.g. 8 weeks) where you could explore life there a bit more, get a sense of what it would be like, and also try to reconnect with your husband a bit more and see if it feels like it's feasible to move there? Can you work ok from there, see what activities/clubs the kids could get involved in, are there other English ex pat kids around etc? And also see how the kids feel about it after that?

Such a hard decision for you OP. I can't really add anything useful, as while I'm also in an international marriage and lived myself in Italy for a while, I haven't been in the position you're in so can't offer you any advice or insight. I do have DC approx the same age as yours though and I think they'd hate to move countries at this stage. While primary age - I think that would be hard, but doable - but at secondary? Not so much.

Your marriage doesn't have to break down just because your husband works abroad. My dad lived and worked abroad when I was little for about 2 years but he flew/drove back most weekends and we came to visit him regularly. This was over 30 years ago and my parents are still very happily married all these years later.

Is the job permanent? If so then move there. Your kids can know their other country. Would your dh get school fees paid for international schools? I suppose that the local schools are good as well. What’s healthcare like there? Can you see a GP and dentist easily? Housing ok? Could you rent out your home in the UK? What about getting Italian nationality? All better than staying in the uk.

Keep the family home and rent it out. Move. Try it for a decade.

Can DS2 board?

Honestly I’m not sure I’d make the decision to move in your circumstances (and I say this as someone who has moved abroad to be with my partner).
If things are already rocky then moving to another country is only going to put additional pressure on your marriage. This is especially if you and your sons feel like you’ve sacrificed a lot to be there or if things don’t go to plan (which at times they won’t). You don’t go into what the issues are in your marriage but you need to consider whether they’re actually likely to be improved by you moving to Italy to be with him.

You also need to consider whether you will resent him if you move out there. It sounds like it might be quite isolating for you if you don’t speak Italian and will be working as a freelancer. I understand the reluctance to leave your parents, but Italy is only a short flight (it’s probably quicker to get back than if you lived in another part of the UK), however it sounds like a big concern for you which suggests that it might be another thing that you resent him for.

Have you actually done tours of the schools that would be an option- International schools can really vary in quality.
I assume you’ve already looked at the curriculum and whether it matches with what your eldest is currently studying. Were we are the English speaking international schools offer a range of curriculum options- IB, GCSE/A-level, American etc and whether they offer the subjects that he is currently taking (here they offer a much more limited range of subjects than most UK schools and sixth forms).
If they are likely to go to university and want to study in the UK then you also need to look at what their situation will be if they are not UK residents (EU students no longer pay the same as UK students so they may be liable for international fees).

If I’m totally honest then if I were you then I’d try to find an alternative. Could your husband come home every other weekend during term time and then you spend all of the school holidays with him in Italy (it sounds like you can work anywhere).
Then have a plan for you to move there permanently once they finish school (I found long distance much easier when I knew there was a definite plan in the future for us to live together again).

How often are you and the kids seeing DH?
That will tell you more about the state of the marriage than any pros and cons of moving.
Do you all regularly go over to Italy for weekends and school holidays? Does he come over to the UK for weekends in between? If you are all making the effort to spend time together I think you can make long distance work for longer so that your kids can benefit from their settled education.
I would be reluctant to move them at the stage they are at - starting secondary and starting GCSEs.

If you aren't making the effort to spend time together already then I think that gives an indication that the marriage is waning.

Your parents are not actually elderly and in need of care yet from what I understand so that shouldn't be a factor yet. Fine to say you will miss them, but use that as the real reason, not that they need care if they don't.

I'm a bit confused about the original situation. Because of brexit? But you are married, and he was already living here? So he would have been able to stay, but chose to move to Italy for his dream job instead of continuing to pursue work here.
Now he's been working in the job, is he continuing to look for work in the UK?

Good point about university. Up to starting university in 2028 British citizen children living in the EU will be eligible for home fee status. But the younger child of the OP will miss that deadline. I'm not sure if the same legislation applies to those leaving the UK after the withdrawal agreement came into force. I presume so, but it's something else to consider.

If you can't afford to rent the house out, and you can't afford for your husband not to have a "big" job, how will you afford to live if you divorce him?

Sorry if I sounded unkind. Will you be able to afford to pay for an international school for your children? I assume they are not free. Regardless of the state of your marriage I think your children may resent you very badly for a long time if you do move them. I'm not trying to be horrible at all but I was estranged for a long time from one of my children because of some choices I made. I am grateful that the rift was healed but it hurt me and probably him very badly for years.

I understand you probably feel overwhelmed. Making life changing decisions in a fragile state is not usually conducive to good decision making. Can you give yourself more time to decide? Good luck with things.

I'm biased. I love Italy, so much so that we even got married there. I'm also very aware I have an idealistic view of the place.

On the surface life's happier, sunnier, and there's lots of culture and fascinating history. Children are not treated as pariahs the way they are in the UK. But it's ludicrously socially conservative. I have four Italian female friends in my profession: all ended up in the UK because opportunities for women in their home country were so severely restricted. We are talking here about professional academics.

A PP mentions upthread that racism and misogyny are rife. I'd personally not want to risk moving into that situation for the sake of saving a fragile and precarious marriage. Should things with the social and professional situation not work out as you hope, the one thing you need behind you is a strong support system and a solid marriage.

Sounds lovely on the face of it but I'd be thinking twice, three and four times about any such move.

I would already resent him enough to ask for a divorce so there's my answer.
I absolutely would not move when my youngest had put so much effort into obtaining a prestigious placement for secondary either.
I think you DH has gotten away with some pretty manipulative behaviour and you wouldn't succeed in getting him to do his fair share on Italy either.
I would concentrate on building more connections in the UK.
I feel quite angry for you op.

It seems so odd that he just moved without you.

Why wouldn't you have gone with him rather than getting more entrenched in life in UK?

What was the point of exams for a school in UK if the intention was to leave?

Seems to me that your marriage s over either way.

So will your husband pay for you & your sons to stay?

I don’t think that uprooting the children at these ages is a good idea.

You may also find yourself stuck in Italy forever if your marriage ends down the track and the children are then settled in the country. Your husband may be able to prevent you and the children from leaving.

How easy will it actually be for you to move to Italy? I'm in another EU country, and the processing time for spousal visa here is currently 9-12 months. Hopefully Italy is better than that, but it's something to look into if you haven't already.

On the whole though I agree with pps, I really question whether moving is a good thing. Movie to a new country is hard. Working freelance you won't have local colleagues. How will you meet people, make friends? I'm worried it could be a very isolating experience for you, even more so with an already rocky marriage.

On the other hand. If you got divorced, would you be able to keep the house where you live now? You mention maybe mortgage payments. How much would your lives change if you stayed in the UK and got divorced?

It sounds to me as if your marriage is over and you’d be uprooting your kids for nothing. They will never forgive you. Crazy idea.