Stress levels at University

[Hawkins0001]

This is a post from facebook 2 cam 2 fess

"#Camfession35892

why are cambridge students not allowed to be stressed out and express it? since i came here i cant tell my family and friends back home that i’m stressed and drowning in work without them saying ‘but you’re at cambridge you’re so lucky!’ or ‘you chose to go there, what did you expect?’ like yes i’m very well aware of that but why does that mean i’m not meant to complain or express that i’m struggling? yes i chose to go here, i’m super lucky and grateful to be here. but this place is absolutely mental and insane and does a number on all of us. its enough that this university treats us like machines, but for your own family to expect that level of never-ending productivity and resilience from you is so disheartening, especially when they know what it took for you to get here"

I've posted it here for all the Various parents, as it makes good points about university.

My daughter is at just a RG and completely stressed as an exam is on the same day as a project hand in - getting her more counselling. The work load seems insane

From what I've read oxbridge is quite intense

Oxbridge is very intense but it's catering to the brightest students so it is going to be challenging. Oxbridge terms are 8 weeks each so students have 28 weeks a year out. Compare that to the world of work. Lawyers / Doctors / Management Consultants / Researchers / Actuaries / Accountants / Quants etc all work long hours with ~25 days leave a year.

Students do benefit from a robust support network of people that understand the pressures, be that family, friends or a College welfare officer.

I’ve told my ds not to apply to Cambridge because of how high the rate of depression is in students. It’s not worth it.

It's not a uniquely Oxbridge problem, it's being a student in general that's stressful, but then so is being an adult. The onus is on the university to provide adequate support and on the student to admit they are struggling and ask for support. It's not school.

Mental health is a big issue among university students these days, not just Oxbridge.

@Namenamechangechangechange Wow. Your post is actually quite chilling. Do you have any experience of mental health issues in young people? It’s very complex and not just a matter of ‘asking for help.’ There may be a hundred reasons why a young person doesn’t feel they can ask for help and under no circumstances should they be judged.

I remember a very bright gent (topped the tripos in my year) having a meltdown in my room because he was stressed but as he was utterly certain he was going to get a first couldn’t tell anyone. I was an old friend from home. But we both saw that as part of the normal stress of life. And yes, lecture six days a week and labs four days a week was pretty busy but most people I knew thrived on it.

Yes, extensive experience.

I think what I’m trying to say is that Cambridge is probably a good place to learn how to deal with this kind of stress but yes, no point pretending that it isn’t full on.

Many years ago , when I was a student on a dental course , extremely demanding in every way from much longer terms to 5 year course to very academically and physically/socially challenging , my good friend threw himself out of a top storey balcony. He was not expected to live as his injuries were so bad , but he did . This was after months of self harming. He is happy today working in a completely different field , with a family and happy life.

The pressure from his parents to do a respected degree leading to a good job was immense. From early teenage years he started down the rigorous academic path and built up the extra circular portfolio necessary for such a course. Once he got in he then worked his socks off to stay in a course he had no interest in with the prospects of staying in a job , afterwards, he had no passion or liking for.

He felt there was no other way out after trying to fulfil people's expectations for so many years.

Today I do career talks and if I can persuade someone not to take up dentistry I feel I have done a good job. The levels of resilience , the way you cope with stress is not something you can teach and needs to be there from very young .

One of my children went to Oxbridge. It was very demanding , but they enjoyed it because it was a path they chose and they had the resilience to cope with the pressures such a path inevitably causes. They also had a friend who committed suicide and many others who developed severe problems.

In any intensive, highly competitive and academic field you rise to the top through hard work, and being able to cope with the pressures and stressors. Some , however bright or able they are will find this atmosphere toxically unhealthy and would be better off somewhere else or doing something else. However both their expectations and those of their parents, peers teachers etc may make it very difficult to make a healthy choice.

According to the ST over the weekend Cambridge lost TWELVE students to suicide just last year.

I would view that as a clear signal that some students need far more support. Just because someone is academically gifted they may also lack coping skills, communication skills and have limited experience of struggling with stress and potential failure- by which I mean a suboptimal essay mark or not getting a first.

All universities need to get on this.

Well @Namenamechangechangechange your ‘extensive experience’ gave you no insight into how hard it is to ask for help. Or humanity.

It's not a university thing it's a lack of preparation before they get to university thing.

It's a we need more mental health and resilience training for pupils at secondary school thing

It's a "if you're going to apply for Oxbridge and a high flying career it's going to be stressful" warning thing

We are doing these incredible, intelligent individuals a disservice by not supporting them at a younger age with their mental health. Academically bright children often do have higher incidence of severe mental health issues, we need to acknowledge this and get that resilience in early

I agree with @Lollygaggle we need to steer some students away from these pathways because they may never develop the required level of resilience to manage. Just because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they should automatically go to Oxbridge or a RG university.

Can we start by tackling this toxic attitude on Mumsnet please?

Had a very similar conversation with a friend about her daughter, who is an Oxbridge graduate within the last 4 or 5 years. She was clearly a high achiever to get there in the first place, but found the pressure almost unbearable. She almost dropped out about 3 times although she was doing fine academically. She developed an eating disorder, lost all her confidence in her ability, didn't feel that the support services offered by the Uni were particularly easy to access, or helpful. And yes, the attitude she heard from so many when she tried to voice that she was unhappy and unwell was "What have you got to complain about, you're at Cambridge/Oxford".

Fried and daughter said if she had her time again, she would not go to Oxbridge.

That post looks like it was written by an American.

@Namenamechangechangechange I’m not sure how you teach resilience. My dc have a disabled parent and have been young carers and one of mine still suffered a mental health episode. They managed to pull themselves out of it (perhaps this is where the resilience kicked in) but they were on a such a downward spiral at one point the idea of them asking for help from the university is ludicrous

I'm sorry to hear this but resilience can be taught through coping strategies, practicing acceptance (some things you cannot change you just have to get through them) and empowering them to ask for help when times are tough - sign post to who to get help from. University students are adults, not children.

Sometimes you need to have the difficult conversation around is a setting suitable for someone. I could have joined the army, I wanted to, my personality type suits it, I'm smart enough, but my body isn't up for the job so I didn't. It was a bitter pill to swallow at the time but I went a different route which I'm extremely happy with.

One of the problems with resilience is that quite often today few youngsters have experienced failure.
We are frightened to let our children fail at anything. If they don't work hard we nag them , get tutors (if can afford) helicopter over them.
By the time they get to university , particularly a very academic course or uni we have people who have never failed at anything or struggled overly.
It is a trope, but true , you learn more from your failures than successes , you learn that it is not the end of the world that you can get over it.

Then all of a sudden from being successes in everything they do , from being , perhaps , the brightest in their family, school , peer group they are landed in somewhere where they may struggle , they may be amongst the bottom half. More particularly quite often they have not been given the freedom to fail , to fall back on their own resources. Quite often they have been spoon fed and haven't had the chance to learn how to learn as schools are so judged by performance.

Quite often they have not been given the opportunity , by parents, to learn basic life skills washing,cleaning,cooking,budgeting. In addition we are so obsessed with trying to protect our children we do not let go enough so they learn by making mistakes and learn how to judge risk.

Finally they are paying a fortune , starting life long debt , for a course or uni which, within weeks, they may discover is not what they thought it was or is right for them , but feel pressurised to continue on.

One of the problems with resilience is that quite often today few youngsters have experienced failure.

say it louder for the pushy parents at the back

Failure is a necessary step in life

However I totally agree about resilience cannot be totally taught.

When doing careers advice I always ask "how do you cope with stress" what do you do , how do you get over it. I then try to get them to realise some career options/courses/unis will involve constant increasing stress mental and physical and if that may be a problem perhaps they should factor that into future considerations,

My dc have experienced loads of failure and I’ve always taught them to embrace it. I tell them about my own failures too. I was taken by surprise when my dc had a mental health crisis. It was probably due to a combination of factors out of anyone’s control and couldn’t have been prevented by resilience. To be fair through they have recovered a lot quicker than I could have expected which could be down to having a lot of challenges in their life prior to that. I still don’t know if such things can be taught. I do know it’s an epidemic as is anorexia which a huge number of students at my DC’s well regarded university arrive with. That’s been eye-opening.

Some mental illness has a known social contagion element - eating disorders being one. Very commonplace in girls grammar schools.