Stress levels at University

[Hawkins0001]

This is a post from facebook 2 cam 2 fess

"#Camfession35892

why are cambridge students not allowed to be stressed out and express it? since i came here i cant tell my family and friends back home that i’m stressed and drowning in work without them saying ‘but you’re at cambridge you’re so lucky!’ or ‘you chose to go there, what did you expect?’ like yes i’m very well aware of that but why does that mean i’m not meant to complain or express that i’m struggling? yes i chose to go here, i’m super lucky and grateful to be here. but this place is absolutely mental and insane and does a number on all of us. its enough that this university treats us like machines, but for your own family to expect that level of never-ending productivity and resilience from you is so disheartening, especially when they know what it took for you to get here"

I've posted it here for all the Various parents, as it makes good points about university.

One of my friends at Oxbridge was a self driven high achiever. From age 7 she re-did her homework if she got less than 100% / an A+. At Oxbridge, she aimed to do more than 15 hours work a day because, when she spoke to potential employers, that is what they expected. She would write down the time she started and the time she stopped working, noting each interruption, so she could accurately tally up her hours. She did this 7 days a week. She got a double first (and is now a partner at a large City firm).

Oxbridge aim to stretch high achievers like this so it's no wonder the environment is challenging for many.

It's important that Oxbridge (in fact, all) students make peace with their goals, abilities and work ethic so they don't feel like failures if they don't achieve results like this because they made different life choices.

@Q2C4 That doesn't sound like a healthy work/life balance for your friend. If Unis encourage this culture, isn't it to the detriment of other experiences such as friends and social activities, volunteering, sports, clubs i.e. the other elements of Uni life that one hopes will make students well rounded? Also, isn't that sort of pressure going to result in mental health problems, at least for some?

This is why it's important to be realistic about what you want from life. Some will thrive working like that others will buckle, let's get our children thinking realistically about their career aspirations.

@8state she wasn't encouraged to do this - it's naturally how she is. She did manage to fit in a social life and she doesn't have any MH issues. She is obviously unusual (evidenced by her double first). My point is that Oxbridge has to cater for people like her. That will necessarily mean that many students won't achieve the top grades / results available. Students have got to make peace with their own work ethic & try their hardest to do their best. If that means they choose to work 10 hours a day and have more down time and get a 2:1, that's fine.

@Q2C4 She sounds very driven and good to hear she's happy. When you said she worked 15 hours a day 7 days a week, I thought that only leaves 9 hours to shower, cook and sleep. I suppose she cut back on sleep to fit in socialising and clubs. I can't function too well on under 8 hours, so hard to relate!

Exams are supposed to be stressful. So are job interviews, buying/selling property, organising a funeral/wedding etc, none of which most people are likely to be able to avoid in their lives. It's ok to feel stress at crucial times in your life.

@8state I do think there is a culture of thinking you don’t need that much sleep. More than once I went from a night out to rowing without going to sleep between! It’s not necessary to spend much time cooking though as in most colleges you can eat in hall.

Yes it’s really stressful. I’m sure people in many countries who can’t actually afford university because they need to feed a family and themselves must pity you.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

@Carleslireis Yes, I remember being young and doing occasional all nighters! Work the next day... Definitely weeks where I didn't sleep much...I couldn't have kept that up every night for years, though. I am surprised the culture doesn't value sleep, though it sounds a bit like China or other countries where 6 hours is the norm so people can study more or work harder.

I wonder what on earth we've done to all our young people. A disservice by the look of it.

So many of them citing 'mental health issues' and 'depression' - where is the resilience of years gone by! Life is hard work. If you can't deal with exams, how with you deal with death, divorce, moving house etc etc.

I think it all started when we started giving out medals simply for taking part and then over commending those children in special assemblies.

I think my grandparents would be astounded by how incapable so many young people are these days.

Life is too easy for most of them. And then they come down crashing. Not their fault. OUR fault.

Speaking in general terms I think GenX and elder millennials have over compensated for their emotionally detached, emotionally absent parents by over parenting and being overly present. A middle ground is seemingly happening with Gen Alpha that wasn't there for Gen Z.

@8state she did cut back on sleep: 2-7am was enough for her. It was certainly good preparation for her working life! I couldn't do it.

University in my experience was just stupid. High tuitition fees with little tuition. I remember most of my coursework being due in the same 2 weeks as all of my exams taking place. No need for that.

Degrees are hard. They are meant to be hard, and should take up a similar amount of time and attention to a full-time job. This has always been the case, although in some sectors of HE the ‘dumbing down’ is undeniable. When I arrived at university I had to fly by the seat of my pants when it came to learning study skills, for example. Nowadays these are very much embedded into courses, although at Oxbridge and the old ‘new’ universities it’s still very much a case of sink or swim. The more intensive level of supervision provided by Oxbridge is a definite educational advantage but involves its own demands. An essay every single week for an English undergraduate is a tall undertaking if you want to write anything worth reading.

What’s changed isn’t the nature and intensity of the work in university, but the society which surrounds it. Exorbitant tuition fees mean most students have to work at least part-time, which cuts into their study time and general freshness. Tired people can’t complete work – either paid or academic – to the same standards. In addition, there’s a mental health crisis - not to mention a cost of living one - throughout society at large, and this seems particularly pervasive amongst young people. It’s become more urgent since this demographic arguably suffered the most under COVID restrictions. Whilst the Oxbridge undergraduate body might be traditionally economically privileged, it is by no means exclusively so. This places more barriers in the way of those students who are not, and bears little relation to academic ability or otherwise.

The mental health crisis certainly isn’t restricted to the more elite institutions. It’s everywhere. If standards suffer in order to accommodate this, everyone suffers and we devalue the very hard work that goes into a degree. Somehow a balance needs to be struck between maintaining those standards and not sacrificing students’ mental health and well-being into the bargain.

Part of that has to be expectation management. My expectation on entering university was that the next three years would be damned hard work at this level. And I did work part-time. It was tough, but my student years were still some of the most rewarding times I’ve ever spent.

I think there should be more standardisation. As well as standardisation of student experience across colleges. Of course, this is all just my personal (and biased) perspective as someone who attended Oxbridge and had a thoroughly miserable time.

If it is any comfort to you - and I appreciate it's likely too late for that - this is already on Advance HE's radar; as is the question of standardization of assessment marking and moderation across UK institutions.

As far as I'm aware this is still only on the horizon, but the question is, at least, being raised.

@Q2C4 Amazing, wish I could do that!
I generally think compassion for others begins with compassion and care for oneself. If the institutions turning out our future leaders encourage students to neglect personal wellbeing in order to succeed, they are not developing skills in compassion, empathy and self care. This has knock on effects on the health service, economy and the country's wellbeing.

It is, thank you. Good to know that some positive steps are on the horizon at least.

I understand your perspectives, very much appreciated

According to the ST over the weekend Cambridge lost TWELVE students to suicide just last year.

Wow!! If we're talking undergrads alone, that's 10 times the national average!!

@AndSoFinally Tragic for those young people and families. I hope Cambridge is investigating its processes to see if they should change.

I don’t think it’s necessarily the case that those who receive lower grades have less work ethic and have made different life choices. My experience was that those lower on the ability spectrum (like myself) and those from backgrounds of less educational privilege were also working all hours to keep their heads above water.

I think there’s a difference between challenging and unnecessarily detrimental to mental health. It’s difficult to talk about Oxbridge as a whole, given that it refers to two distinct collegiate universities, and I don’t want to overgeneralise. However, my feeling is that intellectual challenge and rigour does not need to be synonymous with a punishing workload.

I work with students at an RG and many of them struggle so much with time management and their assessments. Over the last few years we've seen so many more students claim additional time due to mental health pressures. I don't know what is causing it, but it is incredibly difficult for us to tackle as often we aren't aware a student is struggling until it's too late for us to get them some support to help them manage general stress/anxiety before it comes to assessment. I am trying to campaign for more intervention work to be done at the start of the academic year, and to have a dedicated role to work with these students and do more outreach and proactive work rather than waiting for shit to hit the fan as it inevitably does each year.

Very concerning thinking of students going out into industry at end of studies where there will be no handholding whatsoever and many just are not equipped even by their final year to manage themselves.

I think the problem lies less with universities and more with what comes before. A generation or more ago, around 10% of the population went to university. Now many more go - but are schools making appropriate adjustments? Are they doing anything to prepare youngsters for the experience?

Whether or not GCSEs and A levels have 'dumbed down' there is still a big leap to what's expected at university. My experience of working in schools until recently was that there was a lot more 'scaffolding' and general help (some would say spoon-feeding) involved in preparing students for exams. This might help with the exam league tables but it's not going to help students prepare for university expectations.

I just wish there was more honesty about this and that youngsters were warned that putting yourself through the university experience isn't just about partying - and that's where I see the emphasis these days. The message that it will be stressful and pressured at times needs to be got over. Yes, of course some will have serious MH issues, but I see a tendency for some students to think any kind of stress and pressure is unreasonable. Its the old chestnut 'reslience' again - and it needs to come from home and school and be woven into their secondary school lives.

It wasn't my experience.
Cambridge certainly wasn't my favourite university but the pressure there was no greater than anywhere else.