Stress levels at University

[Hawkins0001]

This is a post from facebook 2 cam 2 fess

"#Camfession35892

why are cambridge students not allowed to be stressed out and express it? since i came here i cant tell my family and friends back home that i’m stressed and drowning in work without them saying ‘but you’re at cambridge you’re so lucky!’ or ‘you chose to go there, what did you expect?’ like yes i’m very well aware of that but why does that mean i’m not meant to complain or express that i’m struggling? yes i chose to go here, i’m super lucky and grateful to be here. but this place is absolutely mental and insane and does a number on all of us. its enough that this university treats us like machines, but for your own family to expect that level of never-ending productivity and resilience from you is so disheartening, especially when they know what it took for you to get here"

I've posted it here for all the Various parents, as it makes good points about university.

Absolutely all of this.

Another area that's being studied is teens are more risk averse than previous generations because of social media and smart phones. Everything is filmed, photographed, recorded for posterity. All of which could have life long implications for them.

The rest of us just have cringey memories to deal with and nothing more.

Unless things have changed drastically since my time a few years ago, they do not have 28 weeks ‘out’. Many colleges began each new term with a set of exams, so holidays were spent prepping and revising. Not sure whether this is still the case, but poor performance in these exams could be punished by the college. From what I recall, students from backgrounds of less privilege also spent their ‘downtime’, after an exhausting term spent churning out up to two essays a week, frantically trying to make up the difference in starting point. In my experience, admittedly a few years ago now, it was a punishing regime with very little downtime and mental health problems were rife. I do hope things have since changed for the better and there is indeed a robust support system in place. I’m sure it’s much needed

There is so much prestige associated with going to Oxbridge that struggling or dropping out has the additional pressure that you are letting other people down.

You can see it on the HE threads. So many parents desperate for their children to go to Oxbridge or, failing that, top RG university. So much pressure on their children to do well.

I hope all students struggling are able to access support.

Much appreciated for the perspectives all.

My son was at Cambridge a few years ago and he had a very good experience. Each new undergrad was appointed a 'College Father and Mother' - a male and female student from the year above - who spent time with him in his first few weeks and were there if he needed support.

From his and his friends' experience, I can see that Oxbridge is a very high-pressure environment, but many students thrive on this. My son loved it and got involved with plenty of extra-curriculars too: music, journalism etc There was a saying among the students that Cambridge life consists of 3 activites, work, sleep and partying and you can only ever manage 2 at once. So sometimes he worked and partied, worked and slept but never just partied and slept! That would have been disastrous.

When I worked in a high-achieving boys' school, parents and boys would sometimes give up clubs/orchestras/sport/instrumental lessons on getting into the sixth-form because 'he wants to concentrate on trying for Oxbridge'. No! If you can't cope with your school work and some extra-curricular activities too, then Oxbridge probably isn't for you.

Both uni. Lecturers here, and it is most definitely not just an Oxbridge issue. We have sooo many students reporting MH issues. I think some of it is that lots of very bright young people have been able to get by through a levels etc. with little active work and are not ready for the 'jump' of university. The ones who have been coached to hilt to get their grades, can't cope when that same support is not there. In both cases these young people are terrified of disappointing parents -- many really identify themselves as 'very bright/gifted' because that is how parents have often talked about them, I have had a student crying in my office because they think their parents won't love them the same if they have not done well in an assessment. It breaks our hearts.

Ahh, too bad. I thought this was going to be a thread for uni staff.

My tolerance for students' "stress" is currently at a pretty low ebb, so I will not comment!

I recently did a degree, not at Cambridge though. I'm a single mum but I do think the workload is insane at most unis. Deadlines all at same time, essays in the holidays - final year nearly killed me. I did feel for younger ones, who are often very bright, but struggle with multi tasking i.e. having to complete more than one task at a time. Penalties are harsh too, a couple of poor marks can drag the average down and knock you off your comfortable 2:1, dealing with strikes and online learning during Covid. It all plays a part. I realise competitive Unis are preparing students for real jobs where they also will need to juggle workloads and long working weeks. It's just a shame we have such a culture of succeeding at all costs, losing bright students on the way. Working long hours is also valorised, but there are definite links to stress induced heart disease and strokes. I wish Unis could operate differently.

Sadly, plenty of students don’t thrive on it though. Aside from the impact on mental well-being, I just don’t see the pedagogical benefit of such a massive workload. I can’t think why churning out twelve essays in eight weeks is advantageous in terms of physical and mental well-being, or to consolidate subject knowledge.

I can’t think why churning out twelve essays in eight weeks is advantageous in terms of physical and mental well-being, or to consolidate subject knowledge.

Well, depending on subject they don’t have to be that long. Economics was only about 3/4 sides handwritten. History dons expected about 10 sides but only 8 a term ( one a week) and it was all about learning to identify and consolidate the key arguments, which is pretty key to history.

I think key arguments can be consolidated in many different ways, including discussion-based methods, without necessitating a constant stream of written work. For example, thoroughly prepping some tutorial discussion questions. Or, planning the key arguments of an essay without writing the whole thing (unless you want to). This seems like it could ease the workload without compromising on depth of knowledge and critical perspectives. And, it would add a bit more variety to the work, whilst engaging those with different learning styles. I don’t think someone who has completed 8/12 essays in eight weeks will necessarily be an academic advantage over and have better subject knowledge than someone who has written coursework following seminars and a course of lectures. The point about workload differing across courses is an important one (if it’s still the same as it was when I was there), and I think there should be more standardisation. As well as standardisation of student experience across colleges. Of course, this is all just my personal (and biased) perspective as someone who attended Oxbridge and had a thoroughly miserable time 😂 On a serious note, I always feel sad when I see current students feeling the way the Cambridge student quoted in the OP does. The workload was clearly impacting them. I just don’t think it has to be that way.

It also has to be said for vocational degrees , which also have longer term times, longer days and more years , although the work rate is higher than most degrees the stress and pressure are just another step on the way to the stress and pressure of the real job. Decreasing the pressure means that the job is even more of a shock than it is at the moment.

Many students start to realise during their courses that they cannot cope with the demands of a job they have spent years preparing for but have little idea of what their fall back position will be if they drop out.

Given the type of personalities that are attracted to and succeed in getting through to the courses it is of little surprise that many cope by medicating with either alcohol or prescribed or non prescribed drugs.

Universities for these courses routinely now use UKAT or BMAT tests to test for non educational qualities but I wonder if they would be doing students a service by more closely examining their attitudes and coping mechanisms for stress. I suspect the reason for insisting on work experience in relevant fields is because eg most health practitioners would definitely emphasise the stress part of the job.

I could not agree more. Both kids are academic and school have a mindset of "oh well it's fine, they're exceeding". It's not fine. My child should not be stressed they've never got a spelling wrong and what if it happens every week. The school should have challenged them so that they HAVE gotten a spelling wrong. They should be given work they have to think about.

But some teachers just work within the narrow curriculum and use the bright kids to stretch the average ones so their SATS results are ok and it does the kids a disservice

Hoping they get more challenge at secondary as primary hasn't / isn't great.

That's the thing that puzzles me from reading the oxfess and cam fess etc, yes i know people struggle with assignments etc, but if your at Oxbridge one presumed they a big fish, then is this a case of the big fish from which ever school they were from, are mixed with other "big fish" when in reality they only thought they were the big fish but instead are more average fish ?

I see it like. This. Assume you are an elite athlete. If you compete at your local running club, you are likely to be a big fish and win every race without pushing yourself unduly.

If you compete Internationally, you're likely to have to try your very hardest, push yourself beyond limits previously reached and still might not get through to race finals (or whatever). You're an average fish in the pond you're in, but still a big fish in the concept of the ocean. And of course many elite athletes rise to the challenge and stay competing at that level. And others might decide they can't keep up with the pace and level of training needed and drop down a level.

It's possible (it was for me, I went to Oxford) that students haven't really been pushed until they get to university level. And some will respond well to to the challenge and be stretched. And some will find it all too much. And moving to another university (if that's appropriate) isn't just "moving to another university". It's dropping out of Oxford with associated stigma and knowledge that you have also disappointed your family who were so excited when you got there.

This, unfortunately, is very true. With high grades from elite establishments and high salaries comes an expectation that graduates put the hours in.

I get the impression that university students are largely a lot 'younger' in many ways than they were in my generation. They are more dependent on parental contact and support from what I hear and read and learn from friends who work in universities.

I guess it's the result of a number of factors, but surely it's a consequence too of the move towards far more students going to university. It's obvious that it isn't going to suit everybody. But I don't really understand why these issues aren't flagged by teachers during A levels - and do sixth-formers get any kind of guidance at school about university expectations?

Surely the point of exams/assessments is not just to see what you've learned/how you think etc, but to put you under reasonable pressure because that's what the real world will do? It's not really OK to expect never to feel that pressure or anxiety which is (unfortunately) a part of life.

Ds1 is sitting 5 exams at Uni this week and next, year 1. I don't expect students to get stressed really. A tiny bit, is normal, but nothing they can't cope with, because they've done A'levels, and Uni exams are so the norm, it's expected, so if students can't cope with this basic thing then there's something wrong.

It’s a total myth that they only work for the 24 weeks of term. Vacations are spent consolidating and completing the work that has been crammed into the shorter terms, preparing for exams on return, researching for dissertations etc etc. It is extremely demanding and in reality they take very little time off.

Oxbridge is intense and relentless. But my experience was that staff are generally understanding - lots of times I would hand in half an essay or just an essay plan because I hadn’t been able to do the full thing and supervisors/tutors were still happy to discuss what I had been able to do.

DH and I met at Oxbridge and he doesn’t want our DC to go there. I’m happy for them to if they have the right personality.

@Scrobbler I said out, not off. Of course students have to continue their studies in the holidays - after all they have got to get from A level to Masters level in their chosen subject in 3 years. Arguably A levels have been watered down over the last 30 years so that is going to be hard work (I studied Physicsl NatSci & the 1st yr supervision questions hadn't changed in 30 years, but a lot of the content previously covered at A level was left to unis to cover, so inevitably there was a steep initial learning curve).

However, the 28 weeks spent outside of college is time away from the stressful, competitive college environment where students can study at their own pace.

They don't get to masters level from a levels in 3 years. The oxon masters isnt an academic masters it's akin to when a university awards a celebrity a doctorate.

I think you’ve misread - you move onto Masters level study after 3 years of undergrad study. Q2C4 will have an MA Cantab so she knows what they are!

Ambiguous wording I think it could be taken either way. I'll reread it as your way though. Apologies to all!