Son's Behaviour - do we need help?

[Doublebubblegum]

My 7 yo has always been 'spirited'. Very sure of his own opinion, prone to tantrums, etc.

In recent weeks however his behaviour has taken a turn for the worse. He's absolutely fine at school, no issues with his behaviour at all. But at home he is completely incapable of regulating his own emotions.

A simple request to do something (ie, please go upstairs and brush your teeth as it's nearly bedtime) can result in total defiance, which ends up with shouting/screaming from him. He gets so angry, so quickly. He is so full of rage - red faced, crying, unable to talk sensibly. Whenever he eventually calms down, he is full of regret, saying sorry and telling us he gets so angry but doesn't know how to calm down.

We've been dealing with this by talking about how he can try and stop getting so angry and he comes up with his own ideas (ie if I start to feel angry I'll ask you for a cuddle) but in the heat of the moment this never actually works. Ie when I can see him getting worked up ill ask if he wants a cuddle, but he'll push me away and say no.

When he is calm, we will also give him consequences to his behaviour. We will try to talk about what prompted it, and explain that there's nothing wrong with feeling sad/angry, but it's not OK to shout and scream so we will remove screen time, or something else like that, for a period of time after.

We've been at the park today. At the kiosk at the park, he wanted a cheese sandwich for lunch. The cheese sandwich came with butter on (which is how he normally has his sandwich). He decided he wanted a cheese sandwich without butter, when I explained he had to eat what we had been given it prompted an hour long meltdown, with him shouting and crying. We left the park when I realised he wouldn't calm down, and cried the whole way home. In the middle of the meltdown, he was saying how much he hates himself, how much everyone else hates him, how his behaviour is so bad. I just said that we all love him but we don't like the way he is acting right now.

AIBU for thinking this behaviour isn't 'normal' run of the mill 7yo behaviour? What do I do?

It's making my daughter (10) miserable as she's sad when he acts like this. I feel like me and DH have no idea what we are doing and whether this is normal or a sign that we need help.

The reason people are saying this as possibly being neurodiversity is because it is a real possibility.
I have said it’s possible as my son has a diagnosis of ADHD, ODD with autistic traits and his behaviours are very similar or at least used to be before treatment.
i don’t understand what the issue is with people putting forward possible reasons. No one has said it is neurodiversity

If you were able to walk your DS home, and his tantrum is shouting and crying but not violent, that makes me think you probably aren't in urgent need of professional help. You might want to try a parenting group, if only to hear about what other kids get up to

I see you've had a link to PDA, those strategies may well work though your DS doesn't sound quite so extreme. Also have a look at Ross Green's "Explosive Child". It's for children who melt down when faced with "simple" requests etc. Green isn't keen on specific diagnoses but has some good insights and strategies for children with and without SEN when you've tried talking about it and consequences and they don't work.

Sue Jenner's book (Parent-Child Game, oldie but goodie) has a child development page that says the normal age range for temper tantrums is 1-8 years. I like her division of kids into difficult, slow to warm up and easy. A child can be hard work to parent without needing a diagnosis.

Read the OP.
yes.

Sorry I see this totally differently having 4 of my own. It actually sounds like he totally can get away with bad behaviour with his parents because they do very little about it. Cmon cuddles for outbursts etc etc. There is no hormone surge total farce. He can control himself at school but decided not to at home and its not rocket science to figure out why.

So the OP managed to answer me with a civil tongue but you decided to be rude on her behalf. Nicely played.

Our DS 7 does similar has ADHD
He has very long meltdowns and during them there's lots of self recrimination. He had a frightening episode recently were he said I wish I was dead I'm going to walk Infront of that car whilst we were crossing a car park luckily I had hold of his hand.

We are trying to teach him to be kinder to himself as well as managing his anger and calming down it's a gradual process.

My son is autistic and we get a lot of this. What works for us is managing his environment. He has a fairly set routine with a calendar and daily chart. So he knows what's happening. We try to prepare him for changes. We forward planhow to manage/avoid things that he will struggle with. I don't punish him for meltdowns as it's not bad behaviour, it's overwhelm and is pretty horrible to experience. I don't make him feel bad for it either, he already feels pretty crap at that point. We try to give him strategies to help him calm- counting, food, device. Distraction can work pretty well too.

By managing his environment he has less meltdowns which means he feels less anxious and overwhelmed. This makes him feel more able to cope and he actually does better as a result.

My son was occasionally like this at this age, he’s 11 now. It wasn’t common but it did happen in reaction to relatively minor things. He also never struggled in school which I was both grateful for and confused by.

He basically grew out of it but I found it helped to maintain a really clear routine and allow a lot of down time. I think at times we were pushing towards to many activities and ultimately he’s kind of a homebody.

It never hurts to talk to someone about how to manage challenging behaviour, more tools in the tool box.

Actually you are completely wrong. If a child is neurodiverse it is very common for them to behave differently in different settings. Obviously you can’t have experience of a child with neurodiversity as you wouldn’t state what you have.
I am not saying that he has got neurodiversity, however, it’s very possible. My son behaved differently at school and home and was diagnosed with ADHD, ODD with autistic traits.
This is why parents with children who have a diagnosis find things vey hard because parents who aren’t educated in it see it as a child who is ‘playing up’ or being a ‘brat’. Despite how far we have come, there is still much ignorance around it.
Also, andechrome can certainly affect behaviours dramatically, a child who was once very well mannered can become agressive and have violent.
Its not making excuses for the behaviours, it’s understanding them

It never hurts to talk to someone about how to manage challenging behaviour, more tools in the tool box.

True, though these days the wait to talk to anyone can be so long that the OP might get workable advice and support sooner from a parenting group. I got referred to a parenting group anyway while waiting to talk to the experts.

Yep. My son used to mask it at school and then kick off at home, then he displayed it mainly at home. Now it seems under control but I do get worried that the behaviours may increase again. Just need to take each day as it comes

I love the way you said it’s ‘overwhelm’ as it’s so true.
My son needs the same, he needs to know what is happening, when and who with.
He hasn’t got a diagnosis of autism but he has ADHD, ODD with autistic traits

Yeah my son has a diagnosis of that with ADHD and autistic traits.
I had never heard of it until 2019.
I remember telling my health visitor that j believed something was wrong and she kept fobbing me off all the time.
She was absolutely useless

Hi OP, your son sounds exactly like mine (diagnosed with ADHD at age 7, still on pathway for ASD assessment two years later). My son is great at "masking" at school, where he's kind and sympathetic. But my goodness... at home?! He "rages and runs" as we put it. Shouts and screams. Cries. Kicks the walls. Races out the door. Comes back full of chagrin, tells us he hates himself and wishes he'd never been born. At 8 years old. Breaks my heart. Look at Janine Perryman's website for some pointers, get to your GP and ask for a referral, get stuck into helping your child. Boys with ADHD are 4x more likely to die (through accidents) by age 10! This stuff is real; it's time to find out what's going on with your beloved boy... Good luck.

I find setting timers really helps with this - then it’s the timer saying it’s time up, not me and that depersonalises the whole thing which makes it easier for him to follow.

He already knows he ‘shouldn’t’ be behaving that way because he doesn’t do it at school. And because he is saying sorry afterwards and saying everyone hates him. He doesn’t need consequences. He needs to learn to understand and to manage his feelings. I would get advise for sure, but also talk to him about it, when it’s not happening. Work hard to make sure he doesn’t feel rejected or unloved. It’s not ‘behaviour’ as much as it is emotional dysregulation. He needs tools.

Not necessarily he may struggle at school but not feel able to articulate it so it's all coming out at home and it's people he feels safe with.

We all withhold our feelings at times doesn't mean we don't get overwhelmed.

I’ve been experiencing exactly this for several years with my 12 year old son.
he does not display any other symptoms of adhd but I recently came across this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh-IpsDPizI

I’m now considering a private assessment.

it’s so difficult, I walk on eggshells around him. He is just like your son and it’s not got any easier.

he can not control his emotions and he is full of remorse after.

This.

Also work on naming his emotions for him. (Before full on meltdown)

Give him choices. Eg do you want to go and do your teeth now or in five minutes? (Both choices achieve what you need to happen but he chooses how to do that)

Break instructions down into chunks.

Do consider going to be he GP.
In the mean time do a parenting course. If there is anything going on you can say you have done this step already and do xyz interventions and it still doesn't work.

Don't worry too much about not in school only at home. It's common for some autistic children to mask in school. Other children will also work hard and behave in school and let it all go at home in their safe spaces.

Yes to hormone surge too. Lots of parents of boys mentioned it. Girls hit it around 9.

You have to do a lot of the work on regulating his emotions for him. Yeah and sometimes you just need to get him a cheese sandwich without butter as much as you think you shouldn't have to pander to them. In an emergency when he is dysregulated like that give him something he will eat like a biscuit or sweet until he has regained enough blood sugar and regulation to eat properly.

How would you have handled today's situation at the park? I'm honestly at a loss as to how I can stop it from happening so genuinely interested in any other perspective. If telling him to stop actually made a difference, I wouldn't have a problem!

A few suggestions:

• like others have said he could be holding it together at school and then melting down at home. Make sure that when they come home they have some down time.
• keep a diary - what are the triggers, situations etc when behaviour occurs. Is it worse on certain days, after certain activities, when tired, when hungry etc. Look for patterns
• look up the incredible 5 point scale. This is helpful in a number of ways. You can map when your child looks like at each point on the scale - 1 is calm - 5 is crisis. You can then think about matching your response to their presentation. Eg if a child is a 4 we need to match demand accordingly. This doesn't mean we accept poor behaviour - just that they might need more support to achieve it.
• it's great you are giving warnings but I would break these down even further. Use a 5 to 1 countdown but don't link it to minutes. Just say X is finishing in 5 and then it will be time for ..., count them right down to one. By doing this you are giving processing time. Ending enjoyable activities for less interesting activities is likely to need more processing time.
• consider using a visual timetable for routines.
• in the moment of crisis any consequences are likely to go unheard. We don't process information when we are stressed
• of course there are consequences for behaviour. A good way to do this is to storyboard the incident afterwards - drawing it out using stick people. Use the structure What happened? This might be in stages .

Where did it go wrong? What could we do differently next time

• think about drawing up behaviour contracts. Link them to rewards and consequences

You are not being at all helpful to the OP here. And lucky you never having to experience this. But that is due to your good fortune, not superior parenting.

A naughty or spoilt child doesn't lose control of their emotions like this, and the difference in behaviour between one place and another is often due to an incredible amount of emotional control in one place and the eventual release in a safer place. If he wasn't so comfortable with his Mum these melt downs probably would be happening in school or worse he could be violent. The child needs help and is lucky to have a mum advocating for him.

This is going against everything we have been told. Apparently CAMHS need to see consistency over at least two settings with ADHD behaviours or they will not see your child. DS behaves well in school, but we have a difficult time at home.

Parental support from a charity has been suggested by our school.

Christ is it I (he asks in his best Bristol accent). He's naughty, disruptive, manipulative and you ask what "punishment" he wants. You need to be a parent not his friend. This is what you are having for lunch. If you don't eat it you go hungry. He's old enough to understand consequences. And if he cries all the way home...so what.
it's a shit world out there you need to start building resilience

Oh I have been there a hundred times and it’s so hard. On you and your son. You must be wrung out. There could be lots of reasons and I agree you should speak to someone for some advice - however my 11 yo son behaves in exactly this way and he is diagnosed with ADHD.

When something happens he doesn’t expect, or isn’t what he wanted, he just can’t deal with it. He flies into a rage before there is time for any management strategies and once he’s in the zone, literally nothing will calm him down - he has to go through the full cycle. We have learned we can’t shorten these episodes but we can lengthen them by our response - so hard as it is, we’ve learned that trying to apply consequences in the moment just escalate it further. Once he’s out of the rage, he is remorseful and really down on himself. He says he can’t help it, he’s not in control.

He has never behaved like this at school though. His ADHD symptoms there are different and more on the inattentive side. Emotional dysregulation is saved for home, I think because he’s putting all his energy into masking at school.