Son's Behaviour - do we need help?

[Doublebubblegum]

My 7 yo has always been 'spirited'. Very sure of his own opinion, prone to tantrums, etc.

In recent weeks however his behaviour has taken a turn for the worse. He's absolutely fine at school, no issues with his behaviour at all. But at home he is completely incapable of regulating his own emotions.

A simple request to do something (ie, please go upstairs and brush your teeth as it's nearly bedtime) can result in total defiance, which ends up with shouting/screaming from him. He gets so angry, so quickly. He is so full of rage - red faced, crying, unable to talk sensibly. Whenever he eventually calms down, he is full of regret, saying sorry and telling us he gets so angry but doesn't know how to calm down.

We've been dealing with this by talking about how he can try and stop getting so angry and he comes up with his own ideas (ie if I start to feel angry I'll ask you for a cuddle) but in the heat of the moment this never actually works. Ie when I can see him getting worked up ill ask if he wants a cuddle, but he'll push me away and say no.

When he is calm, we will also give him consequences to his behaviour. We will try to talk about what prompted it, and explain that there's nothing wrong with feeling sad/angry, but it's not OK to shout and scream so we will remove screen time, or something else like that, for a period of time after.

We've been at the park today. At the kiosk at the park, he wanted a cheese sandwich for lunch. The cheese sandwich came with butter on (which is how he normally has his sandwich). He decided he wanted a cheese sandwich without butter, when I explained he had to eat what we had been given it prompted an hour long meltdown, with him shouting and crying. We left the park when I realised he wouldn't calm down, and cried the whole way home. In the middle of the meltdown, he was saying how much he hates himself, how much everyone else hates him, how his behaviour is so bad. I just said that we all love him but we don't like the way he is acting right now.

AIBU for thinking this behaviour isn't 'normal' run of the mill 7yo behaviour? What do I do?

It's making my daughter (10) miserable as she's sad when he acts like this. I feel like me and DH have no idea what we are doing and whether this is normal or a sign that we need help.

When you say you wait for him to calm down, do you really wait that out? How? I'm not judging how you parent, honestly, but i wouldnt have tolerated the park situation for an hour. He would have been to old that the sandwich has butter, eat it or dont but having a tantrum isnt an option and if he doesnt nip it in the bud in he next 5 minutes he will be going home.

I give that as an example because at school he can regulate the behaviour so it sounds like he makes a choice to let his emotions run and then apologise.

If you're happy for that approach, because you think it's too much for him to regulate at school and home, that's up to you and is a parenting decision you can make because you know your son.

The statements that everyone hates him, well, my daughter went through a pharlse of that too so I think its normal, but I'm a but cynical and think it was a tactic she was trying. It passed within a few weeks. I can only offer this on the basis of my child and my parenting, you know your son best x

Okay. I have a similar child. Because he can behave himself at school i am told that he can’t have ADHD as he wouldn’t be able to regulate in that way. So anyone qualified I’ve ever asked for advice tells me he is NT This information is just wrong though. Loads of children mask the symptoms at primary age and that's why there are so many kids being diagnosed in the first year or two of high school.

it really is. It’s just amazing even how it works in relation to memories, dreams ect.

Cool, interesting to know. (Not the black eye, obviously!)

Thanks to you and @IamAlso4eels I feel better informed. I feel bad for repeating that in the past. Ah well, I’ll know better in future.

A tantrum at seven is one thing. One that lasts an hour, and in public, is another. Most seven year olds do not want to be seen by others when they're upset. So to scream and tantrum at a park for an hour is not normal, whatever a few people have said on here.

I would definitely advise talking to someone, whether it's the SEND lead at his school (I know he behaves well there, but s/he can still give you the information you ned regarding getting help and support) or your GP.

The parenting ideas on the https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/ can be helpful with a child like this. Good luck it’s hard work.

I think it sounds like neuro diversity as my son went through this and was diagnosed with ADHD, ODD with autistic traits.
There isn’t any change to testosterone until puberty but there is a sudden acceleration in brain development at the age of 6/7 which can cause an improvement in behaviours or sometimes a deterioration.
I find it so fascinating

What sets my child off is if I say no or I ask him to do something and he says no. This seems a huge trigger.

Sorry for not being clear. I didn't sit at the park with him tantrumming for an hour.

We were at the park, the sandwich situation happened, he started his tantrum, I explained that if he didn't want the sandwich and was going to behave like that then we would have to leave. He didn't stop, so after 10 mins of that behaviour at the park we walked home for 30 mins where he continued crying and screaming for the full 30 mins home. Then we got home and it was another 20 or 30 mins of shouting and screaming at home before he calmed down.

I can't stop him, when he's in the moment nothing stops him. Honestly, asking him to stop that behaviour or we go home would never work - he's not able to think clearly, realise he doesn't want to go home and calm himself down. That's the problem and what I'm struggling with.

"He's absolutely fine at school, no issues with his behaviour at all. But at home he is completely incapable of regulating his own emotions."

Yep, this is my 7yo too. School have said he follows class rules and they have no concerns. Had meetings about it.

CAMHS not interested in seeing him because of this very reason. We believe he has possibly ADHD. Educational psychologist said she couldn't have picked him out against his peers as having a problem 🤷

So what do you do when having difficulty with their behaviour at home then? I hear you OP!

Tell this to any school EP. They aren't interested.

We had a period with our (spirited!) ds (9) which have been as bad as you've described, but without the remorse! In hindsight this was due to a difficult term at school with a not very good supply teacher. Rather than misbehave at school, he held it together but let loose at home. Is there any area of life causing him stress?
I feel for you, it totally exhausted us trying to respond with the compassion he clearly needed, as he was really awful!

Agreed. I was just about to say similar. Giving your ds consequences for something he’s struggling to control right now and doesn’t want to happen is cementing that there is a part of himself, which should be rejected. It sounds as if he needs a lot of love and kindness to accept the current situation so that he can move forward and you as his parent can work through getting some kind of solution.

And completely understand what you are saying about how 'in the moment' no sensible strategies work!

I looked into oppositional defiance disorder, and they have a triangle of behaviour which made a lot of sense and helped me to view it as distress rather than naughtiness. I don't think he has odd, but his behaviour can have similar elements.

I do try the 5 mins notice thing. "OK, in 5 mins we need to go up and brush teeth please" - he's fine. 5 mins later "OK - 5 mins is up - let's go up and brush teeth" - cue lots of shouting and 'no I don't want to'

MathsNervous It's terrible. So much more is known about ADHD now than even 5 years ago. It's such a shame for kids being diagnosed later on, as you're dealing with the hit of the teenage hormones as well as trying to manage the ADHD symptoms and they're often so resistant to helping themselves in the tween/early teen stage. So much better for kids and parents if they know earlier and can get the child used to using strategies to help and manage the symptoms and also adapt their parenting style.

Adrenarche can affect behaviours considerably. It can cause agressive behaviours and children can end up unable to regulate their emotions.
This also causes the brain to have a sudden acceleration in brain development which also can affect behaviours and the mental health of children

I totally get this - but on the other hand, his behaviour is appalling when this is happening. I sort of feel that he needs to know this is not an acceptable way to behave. But I'm doubting every single bit of parenting I've ever done right now so by no means think I'm doing the right thing!!

Boys don’t have an increase of testosterone. The only time this happens before puberty is in the womb at approx 8 weeks and then between 10 and 15 weeks.

I don't have a son, but just reading about the Adrenarche in girls at around this age. I think 7-8 is recognised as a pre puberty point for a surge in hormones (my nearly 8 year old daughter) who was a very confident independent child has turned into a clingy tearful mess when separated from me. Speaking to other parents they are now experiencing serious outbursts of anger and resistance in their previously placid children. Similar to your son, really fine at school but quite tricky to manage at home. I have been reading some research and articles about this so I think a lot of children go through this as they turn / approach 8.

I am working on trying to discuss strategies with my daughter to recognise and manage this behaviour so it doesn't impact on friends etc. We have talked about this and using the quiet corner etc if feeling overwhelmed. I don't know if this is helpful but just wanted to add that you are not alone!

Very common amongst the 6/7/8year olds. Emotional wrecks and it must be some kind if hormonal surge because I noticed this in my own children and the ones I look after.They seem to change overnight ! It us like they cannot control either their anger or tears.It will pass

Is he bright OP? My little one is perfectionistic and when this whole thing started a lot of it was during home schooling where he’d kick off of something wasn’t done ‘just right’. He does seem to be academic but also very social. His brother sits lightly on the spectrum I believe (no diagnosis but was assessed).

Reading with interest. My Ds has SEN and also an explosive temper and tantrums. Looking for any strategies which may help to manage his anger

Adrenarche is kind of puberty of the adrenal glands. It isn’t the same as the changes that happen from puberty.
My son was recently assessed for something else and the psychologist that did it explained that around 6/7 there is a sudden acceleration in development of the brain, this can also affect behaviours.
it explained a lot with what was happening with my son