to think the UK needs to think about the role of the religion and the State given that that only 1/3 of people say they are religious

[cakeorwine]

Interesting survey results

lost-faith-the-uk's-changing-attitudes-to-religion.pdf (kcl.ac.uk)

1/3 of people are religious, 46% aren't religious and 20% are atheist (not sure of the difference)

50% believe in God and 48% don't - so that's a bit weird if you think about the previous survey

About half of people believe in life after death and about half don't

Interesting survey - the UK is one of the least religious countries in the world. Something you might not have believed if you think of our anthem and also the recent Coronation.

The problem is that they were either pulled down/burnt down and are now grassy ruins or they were converted into stately homes for the nobility. They cannot be reclaimed by the Catholic Church.

There are many many parish churches that pre-date the reformation. The iconography was merely scrubbed and whitewashed. The monasteries were often converted into stately homes, but most church buildings were retained and the new religion imposed.

Anyway, it's all by the by. The church of England are selling of the churches to private developers as their church attendance falls. Most will become private homes.

Thing with atheism is that I feel like that term has come to suggest an antipathy towards believing in a higher being. Personally, it has no meaning at all to me. I'm not up in arms against people wanting to have a faith - I would imagine that God is an abstract meaning to a lot of people in terms of using it in the national anthem for example. I do feel like the anthem itself could do with updating but it's hard to get up in arms about it.

Although religion is still 'formal' in this country, we are definitely in a better position than say, America, where a particularly extreme interpretation of Christianity is increasingly trying to force itself upon the lives of citizens there.

I think that, in order to get a place at a faith school, you should actually have to live in a deconsecrated church....

No way! 😯
C'mon, Westminster Cathedral isn't even finished so how are you going to afford the upkeep? Cathedrals are vair vair expensive to maintain, y'know.

Your point about churches being sold off / deconsecrated is valid though. It's a growing problem as congregations shrink - apart from evangelical ones but that's a whole other conversation.

I wasn’t here last year so I find this really interesting. Crack on, OP.

The Vatican has deep pockets!

Joking aside, I am often downhearted about this undercurrent in contemporary culture to remove everything idiosyncratic about English life.

I shall pray, dance round the maypole, roll cheese down a hill, go to a bottle kicking match, salute magpies and think naught of a king being anointed with oil, until the bitter end.

I'm still waiting to hear how much influence it has over my life.

This

All of 26 of them, alongside 752 Lords Temporal. I bet that I could find more than 26 Lords Temporal whom I'd find really objectionable.

My small village used to have four chapels (presumably of different denominations) and a church. The church is long-demolished, one of the chapels was given to the village and now serves as its hall, while the others are either second homes or holiday lets. While we clearly lack spirituality, both pubs are thriving so we've got plenty of spirits!

@DdraigGoch "I'm still waiting to hear how much influence it has over my life."

OK. Here are a few to be going on with.You may not think these things are important, but I do.

In order to take a full part in the life of any state school, you have to be at least a nominal Christian.

People of faith have a choice of a third more schools than people without faith

Any legislation-and this is particularly relevant to health and social policy-has to be approved by a group of people who are only involved in the process at all because of their faith.

Not sure I really follow the faith school thing. There are faith schools for most major religions in the UK. We've got two Catholic ones by us. They aren't reserved for the Church of England in its capacity as the formal state religion.

In order to take a full part in the life of any state school, you have to be at least a nominal Christian.

How? Three quarters of schools don't participate in the "daily act of worship".

Any legislation-and this is particularly relevant to health and social policy-has to be approved by a group of people who are only involved in the process at all because of their faith.

There is another group of people sitting in the same place, with the same powers and status who are only involved because they donated large sums of money to political parties. Guess which one I'm more worked up about.

The Lords Spiritual make up 3% of the Upper House. A vote would have to be extremely marginal for them to hold the balance of power. Contrast with the US which has a strict separation of church and state. How are abortion rights doing there?

Talking of tiny political minorities imposing their cult views on the rest of us though, I'm far more concerned about the amount of power the Scottish Green Party appears to have. Less than 10% of the vote and they've been busy enabling predatory men to access vulnerable women and girls on the basis of a "feeling in the head".

Despite the first post more people than not support keeping things as they are and about half the UK is Christian, 2m+ are muslim etc so I don't think religion is going away from the UK any time soon. I think most of us are happy to live in a Christian nation.

@DdraigGoch Any school not holding a daily act of collective worship "of a broadly Christian nature" is not fulfilling its statutory duty, and a new head could-and should- reintroduce it immediately.

The HOL is a largely corrupt institution which should be abolished. However, this thread is about the impact of religion on public life. The Lords Spiritual are in the legislature automatically, and are likely to hold very similar views on health and social issues. Business men,although equally reprehensible, aren't.

I notice you didn't mention faith schools.

@EuripidesEumenides "Not sure I really follow the faith school thing. There are faith schools for most major religions in the UK. We've got two Catholic ones by us. They aren't reserved for the Church of England in its capacity as the formal state religion."
70% of faith schools are CofE. But the point is-faith should not be a requirement of admission to any tax payer funded school.

I don’t think the two surveys are incompatible. I think there are problems with organised religion but I do believe in God. I thought the part of the coronation service where the king had to state that he was a true Protestant was very medieval and out of date. I’m in favour of the disestablishment of the Church of England but still in favour of promoting a spiritual aspect in the life of the country. I prefer defender of faith to defender of the faith.

@CurlewKate

If 70% of faith schools are C of E then that sounds about right when you consider the percentage split of faiths among people who follow an organised religion in the UK.

But in any case, that's not really a separation of church and state issue. Even the most secular state would have some provision for religious observance and organised religion by the state - Bank Holidays, equality laws, charitable status etc.

Half the traditions you mention have origins outside of England so i would question whether they really are idiosyncratic of English life. But anyway, you are welcome to follow any tradition you wish that does not impact or harm others. But I think tradition for tradition's sake is extremely dangerous and is used to justify some horrific practises so I'll not join you thanks.

"But in any case, that's not really a separation of church and state issue. Even the most secular state would have some provision for religious observance and organised religion by the state - Bank Holidays, equality laws, charitable status etc."

Of course it would. But it would, one hopes, not use faith as a criterion for access to tax payer funded services. If you're in favour of faith schools, how would you feel about faith hospitals?

"I shall pray, dance round the maypole, roll cheese down a hill, go to a bottle kicking match, salute magpies and think naught of a king being anointed with oil, until the bitter end." I don't actually think anyone is trying to stop you. What you do in your own time with your own money is entirely up to you.

Christianity has origins outside of England. I never said all our traditions originated here. I don't see why they should have to originate here.