to think the UK needs to think about the role of the religion and the State given that that only 1/3 of people say they are religious

[cakeorwine]

Interesting survey results

lost-faith-the-uk's-changing-attitudes-to-religion.pdf (kcl.ac.uk)

1/3 of people are religious, 46% aren't religious and 20% are atheist (not sure of the difference)

50% believe in God and 48% don't - so that's a bit weird if you think about the previous survey

About half of people believe in life after death and about half don't

Interesting survey - the UK is one of the least religious countries in the world. Something you might not have believed if you think of our anthem and also the recent Coronation.

William would just edit out the bits he doesn’t like and delegate head of CofE to the Archbishop of Canterbury

Doing nothing is precisely what I'm advocating. Political meddling for its own sake is seldom a good thing.

HoL is by appointment not election.
Yes we could copy the USA and then you’d really know what corruption is.

Because it does not make me feel like I belong in my country.

Our anthem has God save the King.
Our Head of State is annointed by an ArchBishop.

It does not make me feel like I belong. It feels like a club for people who have faith and is not inclusive. If you don't believe in God, then there's a message in this that makes me feel like I don't belong in this country.

It's great if you believe in God. You have God in the anthem and God and the Church in the key ceremonies of the country.

I don't even want to sing our anthem. Yet I love my country.

As I said, given the way society is changing, I can see that the C of E will eventually not be the established Church - but who knows when.

I am sure that Christianity will carry on and will bring comfort to those who believe and who have faith. It will just be separate to the State.

Sounds like a you problem because you can avoid all mention of God & CofE quite easily in the U.K. It’s not like the bad old days where you could be arrested for not attending church.

Having representation from a variety of groups would be a good thing I'm pretty sure that there is some representation from other religions, even if not the formal status of the CofE.

I don't want an elected Lords though, I want people who are in there to do what's right, not what's popular. I'd keep the system where members are appointed for life but cap their numbers, have half as crossbenchers (appointed because they are experts in their field, spiritual leaders etc.) and the other half from political parties but new members only able to be appointed when that party's representation falls below the proportion of votes they got at the last GE.

I am looking forward to when we have a new National Anthem.

God save the King is meaningless when half the population don't believe in God.

I am sure people who believe in God would object to Ra save the King or Jupiter save the King - but that' what it feels like.

I don't believe in god. I only ever set foot inside a church for a wedding or a funeral.

The change in society over the past couple of generations in terms of religion has been marked. I agree with you that now QEII has passed away and Charles has had his coronation, that it's time to actively start this debate.... even more so given that many of those who are religious will be Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews etc.

As for not knowing what the difference between non-religious and atheist, lots of people's beliefs are fuzzy and uncertain.... they still think some kind of god does or may exist, yet aren't sure enough or don't care enough to associate with any religion. These are the non-religious but not atheists of which I would probably describe myself.

I agree there should be a separation between religion and state. I think it's utterly bizarre the church - an updated and unsubscribed institution - has so much influence over how we live our lives. It's undemocratic.

I don't care if believers want to "keep believing" - crack on! Just don't make me live according to your (make believe?) rules.

Parliament can only debate so much legislation. Civil servants can only sort so much. If I were starting with a blank sheet of paper, yeah, there'd be full separation of church and state. But I really don't think that right now it's even close to the top one thousand things that the government needs to fix in the country.

Plus there's zero chance that any replacement national anthem dreamt up today won't be completely naff.

This

It's not symbolic though, is it? It grants bishops a seat in the lords and they scrutinise and approve the laws which affect every element of our lives.
You might be generally quite happy with how they perform that function now, but that doesn't mean it isn't massive overreach.

Definitely not the majority! Come on most people know it's made up. A lot of religious people do it for cultural rather than spiritual reasons.

It's also important to consider that the bishops in the HOL are likely to hold more traditional views on matters of health and social policy. They are, for example, a guaranteed block vote against progressive legislation on assisted dying. It's not all about wearing various charming hats.....

Why does it feel archaic?

There have been other religions and belief systems in the UK over the centuries. Some have been prominent and then have gone.

We don't have Druids sitting in the House of Lords.
Our schools don't have to have a collective act of worship to the Viking Gods.
Our Head of State does not have to have a service linked to the Roman Gods.
Our anthem does not ask Odin to save the King.

The argument is that it's too much effort. It may well be.

But on a theoretical argument - can anyone give a reason why we should have an Established Church, a State Religion, given the fall in belief in God and fewer people who identify as Christian, let alone C of E.

Bagsy York Minster! 😉

No, we don't have a service honouring the Roman Gods. We honour them with the naming of several months of the year, instead.

Look, England is an ancient country and running through it's social, moral and political fabric are the threads of all sorts of ancient customs.

Most people no longer use the word "God", in the original context. For many it is now an exclamation or expression of surprise.

Honestly, there is plenty of "new world" global monoculture in all its glorious tedium for those that revel in it.

Clearly I am not understanding the Cathedrals bit.

Don't the Cathedrals belong to the Church of England?

I know that there was a strong link with the English church to the Catholic Church and then Henry VIII broke with Rome.

But...what has that got to do with getting the cathedrals back? Surely they would continue to be part of the estate of the Church of England?

YABU

I wish people would stop posting shit like this in AIBU.

That's a well reasoned argument.

It's a bit of a running joke amongst Catholics and those protestants of good humour, OP. Any cathedral or church in this country built before 1534 was "seized" (notice my careful wording, protestants) from the Catholic church during the reformation. The Church of England was established formally by Henry VIII with this "seized" estate.

I guess there's a list somewhere to reclaim ownership if the time ever comes to return them.

😂I think there might be one or two prayer book Anglicans left who would vehemently oppose this, but I like your thinking!