to think the UK needs to think about the role of the religion and the State given that that only 1/3 of people say they are religious

[cakeorwine]

Interesting survey results

lost-faith-the-uk's-changing-attitudes-to-religion.pdf (kcl.ac.uk)

1/3 of people are religious, 46% aren't religious and 20% are atheist (not sure of the difference)

50% believe in God and 48% don't - so that's a bit weird if you think about the previous survey

About half of people believe in life after death and about half don't

Interesting survey - the UK is one of the least religious countries in the world. Something you might not have believed if you think of our anthem and also the recent Coronation.

Oh I am an atheist by the way.

Does the UK being Christian mean Muslims, Jews and Atheists are prevented from discussing things? If they aren't, why would anyone be in a separated system? And if they are, that's discrimination.

I can't stand the hyperbole. No one will ban talking about religion. You just wouldn't have Bishops in the Lords, prayer in schools and religious segregation and discrimination in schools as well. Wouldn't that be nice?

Our anthem is God save the King

Why?

Why can't we have an anthem that is about the UK.

When the King was made King, he had to be anointed with oil by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

I wonder if William is religious? George?

Will they say that they don't believe in God and they just want a simpler service to become Head of State?

We are a secular country and there should ne no link between church and state, especially not in education

whereas an American presidential candidate would never ever get near being elected if they did not make their faith clear and look what's happening over there

Curiously, stats in the USA are interesting

85% believe in God but only 58% are religious. I kind of thought that believing in God and being religious went together but maybe not?

How would people's lives be improved? Would the trains run on time? Would housing become affordable? Exactly what difference to people's lives is made by having an established church?

How would people's lives be improved? Would the trains run on time? Would housing become affordable? Exactly what difference to people's lives is made by having an established church

Schools would not have to have a daily act of worship. If parents wanted their children to worship, they could do it in their own time and in their own religious venue.

There would be no need to have Bishops in the House of Lords. They could get in their but on their own terms. not because they are Bishops.

God would be kept out of the State. You would just not need to even mention God.

Our anthem could be for all. Not just for people who believe on God.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There are far more important things that legislative time should be spent on rather than tinkering with bits of the constitution that don't actually have any influence.

It is broke. For many of us.

The link between Church and State is running on the fumes of symbolism now, OP. It will make not one jot of difference to daily like in the UK if that link is permanently dissolved. Is this what really irks you though? Or are you annoyed that the survey data is still showing a good chunk of people that still believe in God or have a religious belief? I am a devout Catholic, but bear no particular ill will towards the C of E.

What difference would it make if we did not have the Church of England and the State interlinked?

If there was separaration, what difference would it make to your life?

Did you know the King appoints Bishops on the advice of the Prime Minister

Leadership and Governance | The Church of England

Our two archbishops and 24 other bishops sit in the House of Lords, making a major contribution to Parliament's work. They are known as Lords Spiritual.
His Majesty the King is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. The King appoints archbishops, bishops and deans of cathedrals on the advice of the Prime Minister.

Not at all annoyed.

1/3 of people are religious. A figure that's declined over time.

Be religious. Fine by me.

But why should the Prime Minister recommend Bishops and the ArchBishops?

Surely that should be up to the Church?
Why should the Head of State be the Supreme Governer of the C of E?

You’re being disingenuous, having an established church is not remotely the same as it being tied to the country politically.
Only 7% of children in NI are educated in a mixed faith school, it has a massive impact on things socially and politically.

There is space in the political landscape to discuss separate issues issues at once unless you’re incredibly limited in capacity. Trains are an entirely different topic, feel free to start a post if that’s what you’re interested in but this faux ignorance to sweep discussion under the rug because X, Y or Z unrelated issue is pathetic.

Because the C of E was established by said Head of State. It is his church.

And that's the point.

That was Henry VIII.

Time has moved on.

Sounds like an argument for a return to communion with Rome to me.😁

It seems like the C of E has a good hold on society despite fewer people who are religious and so having fewer people who are C of E.

Head of State as its leader.
Gets to lead the nation when it comes to State occasions
Gets daily worship in school (not C of E but still daily worship)
Helps to influence Parliament

I wonder how it would argue to keep such influence despite falling numbers who are religious?

Daily worship in schools? Not in any of the schools I've ever taught in , apart from an RC one. The nearest it's come to anything like worship was 'quiet thinking time' lasting less than a minute.

Otherwise it's either form time or a full or partial gathering in the hall and matters of a parochial nature are on the agenda, definitely not religion.

The 1944 Act may require it but I know it doesn't happen in reality in many, many schools.One of the reasons so few people know any hymns any more!!

So a few kids belting out songs each morning, that's as much as you can think of in terms of how it affects people's lives? Three-quarters of schools don't bother anyway.

Bishops in the Lords are few in number so they don't exactly carry a disproportionate amount of influence. I'd reform the Lords anyway, more cross-benchers (including other faiths and experts in various fields) and fewer has-been politicians. That would be a much better use of time than fretting about some oil at a ceremony.

The national anthem has no legal significance, it's got nothing to do with the state, it's simply been adopted by custom and practice.

As usual. "I don't know why you're bothered, religion plays no significant part in any aspect of British society." then you won't mind if any reference to it in legislation is removed then." "Oh, no. We can't do that!"

Happy with things as they are.

The King also approves all laws. Another old tradition that doesn't affect anyone's life (except his). The PM no longer chooses new Bishops, there's a commission for that, the PM just rubber-stamps their recommendation.

Still waiting for an answer to the question of how changing the constitution in this would "improve the lives of lots of people". The best that you've come up with is that a minority of children (who are probably mostly at religious schools anyway, you do get to choose) sing a few songs each morning.

The national anthem was widely adopted around the time of the Jacobite rebellion, it has no significance now other than tradition, a tenuous like to our national story.
I find it disheartening that there is this drive to expunge any hint of benign tradition from British life.

It is having an established church as part of the State that protects us from the raving idiocy of the fundamentalist Christian types that plague the US revoking Roe v Wade and opposing the teaching of evolution.

Be very careful what you wish for. I can see where you're coming from OP but I am very afraid the alternative will be worse.

Literally no one can answer the question "how would it affect you" because it doesn't
I'd rather get all the Tory "donors" out of the Lords sooner than some bishops who at least know what a day's work looks like. And I'm not religious before anyone makes assumptions, I just think out of all the problems in the world this isn't one... unless anyone can answer the bloody question.