To not understand why English businesses won't accept Northern Irish banknotes

[bunsaremybesties]

I am from Northern Ireland, legally a part of the UK that uses sterling. I am currently on holiday in England. In a shop yesterday there were signs displayed saying "we cannot accept Scottish or Irish notes".

My problems with this are:
(a) the use of the phrase Irish notes - personally I don't really have a strong preference for calling myself either British or Irish, but to my ears, "Irish notes", due to the current real-life currencies used on the island of Ireland, would be euro notes, used in the Republic of Ireland. So of course a shop in England would not accept these, just as it would not accept American notes or Mexican notes. I would have thought Northern Irish notes would have been a more accurate description, as Northern Ireland uses the same currency as England.

(b) what is the reasoning for not accepting "Irish"/Northern Irish banknotes, when they're exactly the same currency as those used in England, Wales and Scotland? While in Northern Ireland we do print our own banknotes, we also regularly use and accept banknotes issued in other regions of the UK. I work in a shop and within any hour block at work, I deal with any number of notes from customers that were issued by the Bank of England, Clydesdale Bank, Bank of Scotland etc. The notes have exactly the same value as those issued by Northern Irish banks like Ulster Bank or Danske Bank, so why on earth wouldn't we accept them? It's not even a consideration in our minds to refuse them. Why is it different in England?

(c) if the justification is that Northern Irish notes are not "legal tender" in England, well then everyone who lives in Northern Ireland is in trouble because in Scotland and Northern Ireland no notes, not even ones issued in those countries, are "legal tender". They are, however, legal currency and so are perfectly acceptable to be used for trade.

Can anyone explain please?

What's the current exchange rate for Scottish pounds when used in a shop in London?

Interesting that you’ve not back up your claim that it’s so much more common for NI and Scottish notes to be copied…

Your debit card or contactless payments aren’t legal tender either yet I’m sure you try to use those as a form of payment. ‘Uh why not pay in dollar then?’

A self service machine will accept a NI £20 note but not a 20 dollar note so it turns out ifs not exactly the same at all.

Hasn’t this been the case forever though? When I was studying in Scotland in the 90’s I’d get a hard time for using Scottish notes in London. I would usually be allowed to do it since I plead ignorance as an American.

so maybe that’s the answer…work on your American accent?

Makes nil difference if they are legal te set it nit . Do you even understand the term legal tender ? They have the same value , accepted by any English bank so your comparison is ridiculous!

Many places, especially large companies and especially in the north of England accept Scottish notes no problem - they're reasonably familiar. The further south and the smaller the business not so much, because the notes aren't familiar.

It's got bugger all to do with 'English ignorance' - or if it has, 'Scottish ignorance' is just as prevalent. If you've ever tried paying for a coffee in Edinburgh using a Northern Irish bank note, you'll have exactly the same issue. People don't recognise them.

We used to run a business in rural Scotland and had many visitors from NI for sheepdog trials and ram sales - we accepted NI notes but couldn't use them in Scotland as no businesses would accept them, so just paid them into the bank.

I lived in NI for some years in the 90s and I do sympathise OP, as my family were put in an awkward position in a cafe when we tried to pay with NI notes.

However...
NI has a flipping weird system where every bank has a different note, and they are SO rare over here - I haven't seen one since I moved back in 2000. How can people who work in a shop or whatever be confident that what they're accepting is real money if they've literally never seen it before? Not worth their job, probably.

Plus a lot of places don't even take cash any more anyway, and I don't think they have to if they don't want to, let alone notes they've never seen before.

The statistics suggest they are more easily copied because the % of counterfeit notes is higher in Scotland. In 2021 the rate of counterfeit currency in England was 0.002% versus 0.0225% in Scotland and 0.0126% in Northern Ireland.
Seems there is only one of us making ignorant comments.

I have backed up my comments actually, feel free to reply to the actuals stats. It is up to a retailer whether or not they accept my card and they only do so if they want to. I can't insist I pay by card.

Because it has been set up to recognise them because the business or bank or happy to accept them. They are still not legal tender - I'm not sure how many ways I can say the same thing. Business are not required to accept a form of payment if it is not legal tender. It is not a slight against people from NI or Scotland, it is a business decision and presumably they feel they are not missing out on lots of business by doing this. Maybe if you didn't assume everything was based on ignorance and English arrogance and didn't have such a chip on your shoulder you would just accept it is a business decision.

Yes I understand the term legal tender thanks - I'm not the one who seems to be struggling with it. Banks will also accept euro and use deposits you know!

It's realy not that, its because it's almost impossible for English shop assistants to be able to identify whether tne notes are genuine

Its not a slight it's a business decision to try and minimise fraud losses. No need to take it oersonally

All very i there's ting in theory but I honestly can't remember the last time I paid for anything in cash!

Interesting.

@VisionsOfSplendour It's realy not that

And yet as I stated I’ve had multiple English people argue with my and try to tell me that the currency in NI is the Euro.
If that’s not ignorance…

Can someone please explain for this English idiot (I see it’s ok to label all English people as morons in a rant about prejudice 🙄) what is the difference between legal currency and legal tender? Because the articles linked to have made my brain rattle.

this is just out of interest because I’ve not seen a Scottish note in about 30 years and never seen an Northern Irish note ever, despite visiting Northern Ireland many times. I feel I’ve missed out somehow.

I've worked in retail in the North of Scotland for over 30 years and have never known NI notes to be refused. Also the only forgeries we have ever had were bank of England £20s.

When I worked in fraud it was Scottish £20s and English £50 to watch for as people don't know those notes as well. NI one's were so rare it wasn't am issue.

I'm Scottish and feel your pain!

I think that the further south into England you go, the worse it gets. Never have an issue with notes on the M6 services, they see them all the time. But go to a small shop in the Cotswolds, you'll be trying to hand your note to someone who has probably never seen a Bank of Scotland (or Ulster Bank) tenner and does not recognise it.

Their immediate reaction is reject, then they start on about how they can only take "proper" notes or something similar and that's guaranteed to get the blood pressure rising. They absolutely CAN accept Scottish and N Irish notes but don't WANT to as it's a pain for them, and they are also not as familiar with the security features on N Irish and Scottish notes which are there, just as they are there on Bank of England notes.

Imagine what a stooshie it would cause if every shop in Edinburgh's Royal Mile made the same fuss and "i'll have to call the supervisor" pantomime every time someone tried to hand over a Bank of England £20.

Aberdeen airport had cash machines that gave you English notes (not sure if that’s still the case) because trying to use Scottish notes in London was pretty much impossible.

When you have several banks all producing their own notes with different designs, it’s hardly surprising that a separate country with its own standardised bank notes is going to be wary.

Back in the day - the 1980s? Even the early 1990s? it used to be quite a regular occurrence to get a British coin in your change instead of an Irish one of the same shape, in Dublin.

So Sterling for Punt, 1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, 50p. Shops took them in, gave them out again - I don't think anyone ever bothered changing them.

The 1980s weren't exactly the heyday of Anglo-Irish relations. But the currency did the job - nobody cared. I really doubt there's anything political in notes from Scotland and NI not being accepted elsewhere. Shops want money. People want money that shops will accept. You get Scottish and Welsh and Northern Irish emblems on pound coins, don't you, and nobody refuses them?

You can't expect people to accept notes they don't recognise by sight.

Let's be reasonable.

NI lots are legal currency as in they are legitimate sterling notes but they are not legal tender in England.
The only legal tender in England is BOE notes and coins, however there are still rules around these. Technically it’s not legal tender to use more than 20p worth of coppers. So obviously retailers don’t often go by those rigid rules as ultimately £1 in coppers it £5 bank of Ireland is still legal currency so they can deposit it at the bank and it has real value.
Debit cards are not legal tender either so it’s a funny argument as people rarely pay in cash anyway so they aren’t using legal tender.

CI and IoM aren't in the UK, so that's no surprise, although the IoM accept all UK tender. But I thought Scottish and NI were acceptable in England, I've certainly had Scottish notes in change.

We've had NI notes refused in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Perthshire. In fact never had one accepted in Scotland. Visitors from NI quite surprised we accepted them as they'd been refused in pubs, restaurants, shops.