To not understand why English businesses won't accept Northern Irish banknotes

[bunsaremybesties]

I am from Northern Ireland, legally a part of the UK that uses sterling. I am currently on holiday in England. In a shop yesterday there were signs displayed saying "we cannot accept Scottish or Irish notes".

My problems with this are:
(a) the use of the phrase Irish notes - personally I don't really have a strong preference for calling myself either British or Irish, but to my ears, "Irish notes", due to the current real-life currencies used on the island of Ireland, would be euro notes, used in the Republic of Ireland. So of course a shop in England would not accept these, just as it would not accept American notes or Mexican notes. I would have thought Northern Irish notes would have been a more accurate description, as Northern Ireland uses the same currency as England.

(b) what is the reasoning for not accepting "Irish"/Northern Irish banknotes, when they're exactly the same currency as those used in England, Wales and Scotland? While in Northern Ireland we do print our own banknotes, we also regularly use and accept banknotes issued in other regions of the UK. I work in a shop and within any hour block at work, I deal with any number of notes from customers that were issued by the Bank of England, Clydesdale Bank, Bank of Scotland etc. The notes have exactly the same value as those issued by Northern Irish banks like Ulster Bank or Danske Bank, so why on earth wouldn't we accept them? It's not even a consideration in our minds to refuse them. Why is it different in England?

(c) if the justification is that Northern Irish notes are not "legal tender" in England, well then everyone who lives in Northern Ireland is in trouble because in Scotland and Northern Ireland no notes, not even ones issued in those countries, are "legal tender". They are, however, legal currency and so are perfectly acceptable to be used for trade.

Can anyone explain please?

I addressed this in point (c) in my OP.

And the reverse is also true and yet NI and Scotland don’t refuse Bank of England.

It still largely comes down to ignorance hence the shop having a sign that says “no Irish notes” 🙄 … well no one was expecting to use Euros I’m sure.

I've been in retail for many years in the Midlands and far southern England, handled cash daily and in one job was in charge of counting maybe £50k worth of UK notes weekly.
I could spot a fake English note straight away.
However Scottish or Irish notes?
Very rarely seen, so many variations of banks and as seen so little, it's impossible to keep up with security features, feel and look of them.

Uv lights or pens only check a small aspect of the security of notes the rest is experience and so more likely to slip through if fraudulent.

Yes they are legal tender but proving it is not so simple as saying "but it's legal tender"

As for googling it I'm pretty sure the customer and those behind won't be happy while the cashier leaves the queue to go Google out the back to check.
Yes I know staff can be trained but honestly round here it'd change before a Scottish/NI note is seen!

"Legal tender" is a completely irrelevant concept when talking about purchasing something from a shop. Legal tender is only relevant to debts that have already been incurred. A shopkeeper can accept or refuse any means of payment he/she sees fit to. So they could refuse Scottish notes, refuse BoE notes, refuse cash of any kind, refuse card payments, accept only magic beans etc.

Lots of shops round here (Wales) won't take £50 notes. Or anything larger I'm sure.

I don't think this is about prejudice or about wilful ignorance. It's about ignorance, technically. People just don't see the notes often enough to know fakes, or training and testing take too much time.

Shops do want money, but there's no right to use particular notes. They wouldn't stop you if they weren't afraid of losing out.

Now Bank of Wales notes, if they existed, would be as cool and bedragoned as our flag, and no retailer could resist them.

I would just post Bank of England notes only, though, rather than get into listing Scottish, Irish/ Northern Irish etc

It's not that people are morans. It is because businesses need to bank them and they are more easily copied than the English notes.

It's simply that in England we don't know what they look like. You give me a piece of paper and say its an NI banknote. It might be. Or it might be something you printed than morning in your garage. Same with Scots bank notes.

They don’t accept Scottish pounds either ! It’s simple English arrogance and ignorance . They can and choose not to

Where I work we only take cash in exceptional circumstances we are generally cashless .

@bunsaremybesties you claim not to understand why they are not accepted and then when people explain the reasons - fraud, it is too difficult to check them, you cannot give them out to other customers and need to bank them and finally they are not legal tender - you answer with how they should look them up on the internet etc. Seems to me you understand perfectly why they are not accepted but just want to moan about it and claim you are hard done by (which is fine). I assume businesses in NI and Scotland accept English notes because they are happy to take the risk with fraud etc which is up to them, no reason that English business have to reciprocate.

For all the people saying how everyone would be up in arms if English notes were not accepted in Scotland and NI frankly I doubt people would give a shit. If they travelled regularly or were travelling on holiday they would just have to change some notes.

For the people at the back - they are not legal tender in the England. Should they also be expected to take Euro's and USD or is that English arrogance too.
Any excuse to moan about the English.

DH is Manx, if I come back with notes, I pop into the bank and swap them for the local stuff, no problem. I don't expect all the local retailers to learn about British fringe currency, I'm not that fecking arrogant.

@MegaManic It's not that people are morans. It is because businesses need to bank them and they are more easily copied than the English notes.

In what way are they more easily copied? Do you have anything to back up there being more northern Irish counterfeit notes than Bank of England notes since the former is supposedly so much easier to copy?
Or as per, is this just another ignorant comment with almost no backing?

Yes we are heading for this.

Last time I was in Scotland I don't think I brought any cash back with me. I don't actually see it as a problem and just work around it. Did get some Clydesdale bank money as a present and was just careful where I spent it no hassle 😁

I live in the South, I have no clue what Irish notes look like. The bank down the road has ways of checking them.

You’re right, a different sterling note is exactly the same as a dollar…

Irish notes would be euros.

I'm English, 49 years old, and very embarrassed to say I didn't even know that NI notes were different! I did know about Scottish ones, but you very rarely see them in London (only when I worked in retail some years ago).

Was going to comment this about the self service tills. They accept Scottish and NI notes without problem so obviously have a way of recognising them as sterling tender. I have sadly resorted to just using them in this way when I do get them, although it shouldn't be that way!

That's what you left out in your first post, which I was referring to. I'm pretty sure the Scottish notes in my purse are not connected to fraud or drugs, unless every note in Scotland is.

It’s simply because Scottish and NI notes are very rare in most areas of England, and there is therefore a lack of familiarity. Since the majority of notes in Britain are English, I expect the reverse is less true. A shop in (for example) Norwich might only see one non-English note every 6 months, so it’s a bit of a stretch to expect them to have a working knowledge of the multiple current non-English notes.

Well they are exactly the same in the sense that they are not legal tender in England!

For the people at the back - they are not legal tender in the England

They aren’t legal tender in Scotland either.

Scottish Banknotes are legal currency – i.e. they are approved by the UK Parliament. However, Scottish Bank notes are not Legal Tender, not even in Scotland

https://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknotes/legal-position.html

I don't think "we can't accept them because of fraud concerns" would be half as annoying as the repeated references to NI notes as being (Republic of) Irish notes, refusing to believe Belfast was in NI and ignoring the word "sterling" on the actual notes, that I had the few times I tried to use them on the mainland in the 90s. NI notes were rejected in Scotland too, it wasn't just the English