To not understand why English businesses won't accept Northern Irish banknotes

[bunsaremybesties]

I am from Northern Ireland, legally a part of the UK that uses sterling. I am currently on holiday in England. In a shop yesterday there were signs displayed saying "we cannot accept Scottish or Irish notes".

My problems with this are:
(a) the use of the phrase Irish notes - personally I don't really have a strong preference for calling myself either British or Irish, but to my ears, "Irish notes", due to the current real-life currencies used on the island of Ireland, would be euro notes, used in the Republic of Ireland. So of course a shop in England would not accept these, just as it would not accept American notes or Mexican notes. I would have thought Northern Irish notes would have been a more accurate description, as Northern Ireland uses the same currency as England.

(b) what is the reasoning for not accepting "Irish"/Northern Irish banknotes, when they're exactly the same currency as those used in England, Wales and Scotland? While in Northern Ireland we do print our own banknotes, we also regularly use and accept banknotes issued in other regions of the UK. I work in a shop and within any hour block at work, I deal with any number of notes from customers that were issued by the Bank of England, Clydesdale Bank, Bank of Scotland etc. The notes have exactly the same value as those issued by Northern Irish banks like Ulster Bank or Danske Bank, so why on earth wouldn't we accept them? It's not even a consideration in our minds to refuse them. Why is it different in England?

(c) if the justification is that Northern Irish notes are not "legal tender" in England, well then everyone who lives in Northern Ireland is in trouble because in Scotland and Northern Ireland no notes, not even ones issued in those countries, are "legal tender". They are, however, legal currency and so are perfectly acceptable to be used for trade.

Can anyone explain please?

👏🏻

I wouldn't be surprised to see a few of these around London accepting some foreign currencies. I know in Belfast Titanic centre will take Euros in addition to Sterling due to the cross border and EU tourists.

I used to live in a UK town next to a very large US air force base. Many local businesses happily accepted US dollars in payment.

Channel Islands currencies are not officially recognised or supported in the UK because the British Government has no regulatory control over then (which is a contrast to Scottish and NI notes). The Bailliwicks’ currency decisions are independent. They choose how much they issue and how they back it. They could change this if they wanted and unlink it from GBP.

Should I have refused to accept this today in Basingstoke ?

You were correct to refuse to accept this one because Scottish paper £5 notes went out of circulation on 1st March 2018.

The Scottish £5 note is now polymer which is perfectly fine.

Bank of Ireland sounds very similar to Allied Irish Bank if you don't deal with them daily. OR if you did deal with the latter until they withdrew from the SME market in GB and closed your business account.

I have been a lawyer in the Bank of England’s Legal Directorate.

This is quite an interested read. It might clear a few things up for you, OP.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender#:~:text=English%20banknotes%20aren't%20legal,aren't%20legal%20tender%20anywhere.

I’m also Northern Irish and my mum has been known to send me cash in the post: always English notes tho!

Question: has anyone seen a banknote for the Gibraltar Pound, the Falklands Islands pound or the St Helena pound?

On a tangent, before UK currency was shrunk I had a Victorian Gothic florin turn up in my change. I still have it. It's very worn, unfortunately, because even back then it would have been worth lots more than 10p in good nick.

I have seen Gibraltar currency - in Gibraltar. I brought some home as a kid but I don't know what happened to it.

english peeps thoughts - “bank notes are a thing issued by the government just like the coins and have nothing to do with a “bank” I can actually visit on the high street and do “banking” at, what’s this weird note saying “royal bank of Scotland” on it, that’s a high street bank isn’t it - don’t they own NatWest- why are they making bank notes, this is not right”

ni/Scots peeps thoughts “bank notes are issued by normal high street banks and so look different because they come from different banks, this is all normal and why are the English not getting it”

in England/wales the only bank that can issue notes is the Bank of England who are not a “normal” bank that people bank with therefore in the average English/Welsh persons brain money as in a “banknote” is only issued by the state bank and the idea of a high-street bank is just as weird as the idea of each high-street bank making its own coins. For me it’s not that they’re Scottish/NI but that is from a random bank. If the notes used usually in England/wales were printed by HBSC or NatWest then it would seem a lot less strange to see variation in notes.

fyi: I do know that the Scottish/ni banks notes are just as good as the BOE notes and just as valid but it’s the whole getting your head round the fact that commercial banks make their own notes that’s the brain fuzzer, and having seen only a few Scottish notes and never having seen a NI one if someone gave me one I wouldn’t know if it was a real one or not so I’d be less keen to accept it (I’d be happier to take euros or dollars tbh at correct exchange obvs because I have a passing familiarly with what the are supposed to look like)

From my bank training although it's a legal currency it's not actually legal tender (seems to also be backed up by a quick Google search). Therefore there is no legal standpoint to have to accept them.

It's hard for staff to know what they can and cannot accept as at the end of the day if they get it wrong it can have a big impact on their job whereas most will know exactly what they are looking for with English notes.

Legal tender does NOT mean a business has to legally accept Bank Of England and/or other notes at all. Your statement ".....although it's a legal currency it's not actually legal tender....Therefore there is no legal standpoint to have to accept them" implies this, incorrectly.

From the Bank Of England website:

"You might have heard someone in a shop say: “But it’s legal tender!”. Most people think it means the shop has to accept the payment form. But that’s not the case."

And:

"If your local corner shop decided to only accept payments in Pokémon cards that would be within their right too. But they’d probably lose customers."

And:

"Legal tender has a narrow technical meaning which has no use in everyday life."

Tender simply means an offer to pay.

I'm in the Newcastle area and have rarely been refused service over a Scottish note. Go South, however... visiting relatives round Huntington and London, shop workers give you a look as though you've tried to give them a dog turd!

I remember a lot of shops refusing Scottish fivers, in the late 90s and early 2000s, as there was a spate of forgeries, done locally.

I found that in Dumfries and Galloway & Glasgow, there was little trouble with Northern Irish notes, but away from there, no dice.

I used to have a Northern Bank £100 note, from 1996 (?). I found it amusing to offer to pay rounds with it and the replies usually involved the words "Monopoly money" and "fucking."

It's simply the tyranny of the majority.

NI: population = 2 million (generously rounded up)
England population = 56 million (rounded down)

I still have it. It's very worn, unfortunately, because even back then it would have been worth lots more than 10p in good nick.

The Victorian florins had a relatively high silver content, so it may be worth more than you think.