to want my parents to be more involved grandparents?

[callhermum]

I’ve been pretty much independent from my parents since I was 16 and have never made a habit of leaning into them for support. My relationship with them is pleasant enough and has had many moments of fun, but it has never been one where I’d garner nurturance or guidance necessarily.

I’m 34 and have been with my partner for 15 years. We have a 3 year old son and another due in a matter of weeks. One of the most surprising, and frankly sad, realities of becoming a parent for me has been the lack of enthusiasm and/or interest my parents exhibit.

I’d like to caveat this by saying they’re always very loving and welcoming to my son, and by no means uninviting when we pop to see them. I just can’t help but think if it wasn’t for me making the effort to facilitate visits, they wouldn’t see him very often. They never offer to babysit or ask for time with him exclusively (i.e without me there too.)

For some context, my dad runs a steady business from home which he manages on reduced hours and my mum isn't officially employed but cares part-time for her 87 year old mum. She helps mainly with keeping the house in order and bits of personal care. It’s by no means a full-time job.

For further context, my parents aren’t exactly old — dad is 55 and mum is 5 years his senior. It’s not like they have busy social lives, activities or commitments that take up their time. They are pretty antisocial and stay in most of the time, and live a pretty simple life.

Anecdotally I know of many people who have a lot of support from their parents. Support which they are massively reliant upon, support which seems to form an essential part in their family system as a whole. From child care throughout the week, to regular overnight stays, and even times the children are taken away on extended breaks.

And I have spoken to grandparents over the years who are thrilled to talk about how much pleasure they take in spending time with their grandchildren. People who light up when they relay stories about their children and grandchildren.

I think I’m mourning what the relationship could be like.

This isn’t me demanding that my parents be of service to my family in a way which just benefits us. However, I can’t help but feel like I’m missing out on having more involved parents and my son is missing out on having grandparents who take a demonstrable interest in his life.

If it wasn’t for me popping over their house occasionally, I don’t think we'd see them very often at all - and that makes me sad.

So, I guess I’d love to know AIBU to want more from my parents?

If you have been independent since 16 (congratulations!), why does this even bother you? Seeing grandparents 3 or 4 times a year is perfectly normal, and everyone "knows" everyone else. Or do you just want free childcare?

You're coming form a place of hyper-sensitive hurt, OP, so I think that MANY people would not spot anything obviously dysfunctional in what you describe - weekly visits where your parents are warm towards your child.

For some people, that's all they want, and for others that's excessive. You want more, and you have a very particular idea of how families behave. And fairly - you apply those standards to yourself, for example, re: caring for them when you're old.

However I do think that you're being quite dogmatic, especially when taking into account that the people you're talking about demonstrably DON'T feel that way. Because you feel like they should be offering to babysit, you are doubly aggrieved when they don't - when you haven't even asked them.

I get why you feel like you do. But it doesn't change the practical steps for handling it - aka, ask them! And don't go asking with a closed fist - offer to help out with your gran too.

They could be unsure how to get closer with your son due to the lack of closeness in your relationship.

I've posted about this before on mumsnet. My parents are "hands off" grandparents too, although I had no preconceptions beforehand that they'd be any different.
They are local, retired and healthy. They just want to enjoy their retirement and have raised their children. They see DD once a fortnight at best for a couple of hours, and I have to ask well in advance for that. If they have any prior arrangements, that comes first. She is their only grandchild. I too am surrounded by friends who's grandparents always have them overnight and through school holidays.
Everyone is different, but I know it's tough. Have you tried speaking to them saying you'd like to see them a bit more? If you've been independent for so long maybe they think you like it as it is?

You aren’t being unreasonable to wish you had more support from them. I totally relate to that - I wish my parents wanted a more involved relationship as Grandparents to my children, I wish that they wanted to see them more than 4/5 times a year (they live a 45 min drive away). But I have to accept that I can’t force them to be involved, or to babysit, or to be more supportive to me. Still makes me sad though.

It’s the refrain of those upset about other peoples lives not revolving around them. Because of course it isn’t selfish to think people should be focusing on your/your children, rather than their own actual desires.

I think you underestimate what it’s like at 60 to be a part time career for someone who is 87, OP.

I am not sure how much energy I would have to spend with preschoolers under those circumstances.

As long as they love your children and are good to them when they see them, that sounds pretty reasonable to me.

This.

And, anyway, not everyone is besotted with babies and toddlers. They are exhausting and boring as well as funny and charming. And very very very hard work. Why would anyone in the world want to 'spend time with a 3 year old'? who wasn't obliged to.

Can't you imagine any grey areas between living together and doing full time childcare and being uninvolved and disinterested unless someone else makes the effort? It isn't hard to achieve some kind of balance.
You talk about 'actual desires'. That is exactly my point and the other poster's point about selfishness. As I said, it is a sad that some grandparents don't see to want to spend time with their children/ grandchildren and see it is a huge burden.

What, in concrete terms, do you want from your parents that you're not getting?

Do you want them to want you more?

I think unfortunately I would just not make the effort for a while and see if they decide to voluntarily communicate or make some kind of effort. If it goes more than a couple of months without hearing from them or seeing them, be quite direct in your feelings about this towards them, if they don't improve you will have to cut them off fully.

Surely that depends on what the individuals in your family are like though. Your parents clearly didn’t foster a very close relationship with you or give you much guidance as a teen or adult so why try and force something that isn’t there? Families can be lovely, supportive and enriching when the people in them are genuinely nice to and care about each other and make reciprocal effort. They can be burdensome when they’re the cause of upset or resentment. If I were you I certainly wouldn’t be looking after your parents in old age, they made their bed, they deserve the same detachment from you

I understood your point perfectly, I just disagree that decrying selfishness because it doesn’t manifest in ways that would suit you isn’t, in fact, selfish in its own right.

For some it is a huge burden? One persons supportive is another’s burden, same as one persons missing out is another’s dogged bullet. There’s no one size fits all that works for everyone, and trying to force people into any one ideal of what they should think and should do isn’t preferable to people deciding for themselves.

We will have to disagree then. I don't see it as selfish to hope that your parents would be interested in spending time with their children/ grandchildren and to feel sad that they do not (not talking about regular childcare). As I said, there is a very large grey area between the two approaches. On the other hand, I would see what you said about 'focusing on their actual desires' as being entirely selfish. Presumably you feel exactly the same about people helping elderly/ frail parents only if it is their actual desire to do so which would at least be not hypocritical but doesn't represent a great philosophy for society which was @Betterbear's and my initial point.

These posts pop-up a lot on Mumsnet and invariably the poster will insist that their parents have "no health issues, plenty of free time and few social obligations". So why not be more enthusiastic about spending time with grandchildren?

I'd point out that you really don't know what goes on behind closed doors, even when it comes to your parents. Just because they haven't shared it with you doesn't mean there aren't health problems (including cognitive concerns), marital discord, mental health issues, insomnia...the list is endless.

Before writing it off as "selfishness" consider that it's very likely there are things going on that you are unaware of.

But for the OP, as far as we know she has a routine of taking her kid around, and they engage with their grandchild positively every week.

They might not see any problem with that - one could reasonably assume that OP wanted to get out of the house once a week for a change of scene.

My parents live about 200 miles away, in a highly desirable rural area. I love going there, and they're a bit nervous of cities - and we all like to get out and walk when we meet up. Makes sense to meet at theirs or in lovely locations inbetween.

But now I'm pregnant I'm knackered and have so much to sort out at home. So I told them that, and they've made the effort to come to me. And my sister is jealous because she only ever made shady allusions to asking them to come, she didn't just... Ask them.

That's a bit rich, when OP's mother is busy caring for her own 87 year old mother.

It's often trotted out here that if one's parents got childcare help from their parents, they should offer it to their own children.
But OP's mother shouldn't get help in her old age, despite giving it to her mother?

I'm on my 60s. I appear healthy and fit, but looking staff my DGD, though it's a joy, it's entirely knackering. I no longer have that kind of energy.

Caring for a very elderly parent will also be tiring, and a lot more stressful and less pleasurable. It's not surprising that OP's mum hasn't got a lot left over for childcare after doing so.

Looking AFTER my DGD, even

if they don't improve you will have to cut them off fully

What terrible advice. The OP described her parents as "very loving and welcoming" to her son. Why should she "cut them off fully"? How does her child benefit from that? Bizarre.

of course you don’t. I didn’t expect you to. What you’re saying though is ‘don’t live by your desires, live by mine’, and presenting it as a virtuous alternative.

I have no opinion on what people decide when it comes to their own families. That’s up to them. My idea of ‘the right way’ is relevant only to me and mine, and I don’t expect anyone else to be beholden to it.

That's not what I am saying at all. I have twice mentioned the large grey area between being a general slave and showing no interest. Most families manage to find somewhere in between that works for everyone. I have said nothing about one person dictating what everyone else does. That's your assumption entirely.

It is possible that is a communication issue, yes. From what the OP has said though, they haven't generally been warm parents who give good advice/ emotional support so they may not be like your own at all.

My parents seemed interested in my children for awhile and it was wonderful. Then covid happened. They no longer visit much and seem generally disinterested. They were never all that interested in me and I accepted it. I find this more hurtful. They had a great relationship with my kids but just seemed to lose interest and now my kids never talk about them. It makes me sad (I LOVED my Grandparents). I sympathise.

Throwing up a straw man there. I haven’t presented it as a binary choice between a slave to family or being completely self interested. What I have said is that people deciding for themselves is a good thing, rather than some sign of social decay. You may not like the choices some people make, but who said you needed to?

Not a straw man at all , responding to your point about some people (the parents) wanting to dictate grandparents/ wanting other peoples lives to revolve around them. When you say 'people' should decide, you therefore appear to be referring to grandparents deciding what suits them.
I am saying that it is a shame that we are not a more generally supportive society as we have been in the past and as many other cultures are today.