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Dog walker killed by her own XL Bully Breed dog.

421 replies

BethDuttonsTwin · 17/05/2023 18:30

NOT a pack of 8 dogs as was reported repeatedly with concurrent complete slating of all professional dog walkers.

Absolutely awful. So many of us who have worked with dogs knew this would be the outcome and that packs of 8 dogs do not behave in this way.

After investigations are complete we are now told that the only dog destroyed was the walkers own XL Bully Breed dog. Over and over again it is these dogs and still today I see a man strutting around my locale with two of these type dogs, both unneutered and off lead 🤷🏼‍♀️

OP posts:
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WhiteFire · 18/05/2023 22:02

Not saying that poster is in one of the towns in Cleveland, but this is probably very indicative of the neighbouring areas.

GabrielleLegs · 18/05/2023 22:09

@oakleaffy We are going to have to disagree on this. The man let down an animal in his care. No parental education is needed for an adult to identify that an animal who is skin and bone needs more food and/or medical attention.

Animals have basic needs....food, water, warmth, shelter, medical attention. You can learn about this from common knowledge, books, the internet, tv.....anywhere.

It was neglect.

SnackSizeRaisin · 18/05/2023 22:31

WiddlinDiddlin · 18/05/2023 05:00

Most likely redirected aggression.

This is what happens when dogs are scared or super frustrated, highly aroused (in the 'wound up ready to go' sense not sexually... usually) and are restrained in some way, in this case on leads.

With nowhere to go and tension rising, they will lash out at whatever/whoever is nearest and that will be each other and likely the handler.

For this reason too, a dog in a fight may well bite their owner when the owner shoves a hand in to separate, they don't realise what they're doing and just bite whatever is there.

So several big dogs and little dogs, yapping and barking and pulling and one snaps at the other and someone snaps at her and she falls down, its very very easy to see how they just get stuck into whatever they can reach and the more she becomes a dead weight on the end of that lead, up to a point the more they will bite.

Another really dangerous factor is that when a dog is in a fight and has hold of another dog or person, they may not let go - to let go in this situation is to allow their opponent to get a better grip on them, get another grip, so they don't let go.

This is not a breed specific thing this is an individual specific thing, any of the dogs could have done this and if they got her in the neck in the wrong place, she could have bled out fast. Even a Dachshund, if its grabbed and won't let go you'd need both hands and to be standing up to get them off. She was down on the floor under multiple fighting/grabbing/holding dogs.

If you did overpower a smaller dog biting down and not letting go, then the outcome is huge amounts of tearing trauma to whatever they had hold of, so even if you have the strength to rip off a smaller dog - the damage they'd do could be fatal.

Humans are fragile things, the jugular vein is superficial and unprotected, unless a dog has no teeth at all, any dog could pierce that with ease.

I think theres been a significant lack of respect and understanding for what dogs can do, what dogs will do, how dogs behave, and it's been going on for some time. It'd be easy to lay blame at the feet of the 'furbaby' types but honestly, the 'I've got black cargo pants, military boots and a Cane Corso with the ears sliced off it' type 'dogs a dog, my dogs a weapon' types are too - because they believe somehow their dogs know right from wrong and know a good guy from a bad guy... and that their dog won't turn on them. And they use the type of training more likely to cause aggression and serious errors on the dogs part.

It's people we need to educate, and control. Then the dog issue will resolve.

But its much easier to ban breeds, which as I said earlier, has been proven not to work but is what the well meaning but ignorant public cry out for.

Clearly banning breeds does work, as there have not been any deaths due to dogs of any of the banned breeds in recent years.

We just need to ban more breeds. Or as an alternative require licensing and home checks for dangerous breeds, which would put irresponsible people off.

WisherWood · 18/05/2023 22:56

Clearly banning breeds does work, as there have not been any deaths due to dogs of any of the banned breeds in recent years.

Depends what you mean by recent. The following were killed by pit bulls:

Ellie Lawrenson, 2007
Jon Paul Massey, 2009.
Leslie Trotman, 2012.
Emma Bennet, 2013
Ava Jayne Corless and Molly-Mae Wotherspoon 2014.

Plus as PP have pointed out, it hasn't stopped deaths, which was the point. You're basically playing whack a mole as those who want fierce looking dogs just move onto the next breed. Now, it's bully dogs. So the issue is training owners and restricting ownership of any breeds.

oakleaffy · 18/05/2023 22:58

Emotionalsupportviper · 18/05/2023 21:38

Same here - blimey it hits the local rag if somebody's tyre caps get pinched! Add that t a couple of plant pots getting kicked over and it's a crime wave.

Dog-on-dog aggression is quite common, though, especially since lockdown - too many bad trained, unsocialised dogs about.

he wasn't 'Bad' as in meaningly cruel, it was literally not understanding {Which can lead to inadvertent cruelty like a hungry, ribby bitch :(

I'll have to take your word for it @oakleaffy , but how anyone can look at an obviously very thin, hungry dog and not see she needs more food is beyond me - unless they are learning impaired. Funnily enough they still seem to know about money though.

The bitch regained weight once she had stopped feeding her pups -
Believe me I tried to get him to feed her more.

Sadly he had a very bad home situation- I can’t say too much , but he was being used.

A very sad all round situation.

AnyaMarx · 18/05/2023 23:58

8 jobs a day is just for my one district .

We have 4 districts in our force area .

Did someone really sit and do maths based on .....?

Grumpusaurus · 19/05/2023 02:26

It is tragic. However, that woman really was at fault for walking such a large group of dogs with some being especially problematic. That many dogs is extremely excessive and bang out of order, as it could have represented a massive danger to other people and dogs! I say this as a dog lover and owner. As sad as the events are, I still rather it was the person culpable than any innocent bystanders.

WiddlinDiddlin · 19/05/2023 03:50

SnackSizeRaisin · 18/05/2023 22:31

Clearly banning breeds does work, as there have not been any deaths due to dogs of any of the banned breeds in recent years.

We just need to ban more breeds. Or as an alternative require licensing and home checks for dangerous breeds, which would put irresponsible people off.

Banning breeds was intended to resolve the 'dogs attacking and killing people' problem. I mean, people weren't overly concerned if it was a pitbull or an american bulldog or a doberman or a rottie that killed them, they were keen not to be killed by dogs.

Banning three breeds that didn't exist here looked really great - to people who had no idea those breeds didn't exist here.

Banning one breed that did, but in relatively small numbers (and that was not actually the most common breed involved in fatalities at the time, that claim went to Rottweilers), has resulted in...

No drop in deaths from dog related attacks, nor 'status dog' related fatalities.
A dramatic increase in ownership of pitbull types
The development of bigger, 'not quite a pitbull' types that circumvents the ban.

  • Banning breeds generally leads to the following:
  • Harmless, responsibly owned pets being euthanised (not the worst thing in the world for everyone but their family of course).
  • Intentionally owned illegal breeds being kept hidden, not walked, not housed properly, not trained or socialised, passed on behind the scenes... which makes them more dangerous.
  • Development of another type that will circumvent the ban.
  • Increased level of desirability of that breed amongst those who wish to intimidate others, so see second point.

Trainers and behaviourists shouted from the fucking rooftops during the pandemic that the increase in puppy sales would have this outcome, that preventing people from training/socialising/habituating and having trainers/behaviourists out to their homes, limiting access to vets, etc would result in a crop of adolescent/young adult dogs with owners who hadn't a fucking clue.

We begged the government to do something, ban puppy sales, put a cap on puppy prices, permit training etc, produce educational material explaining WHY a pandmic puppy was a horrible idea for many. It fell on deaf ears.

Lilacsbloominspring · 19/05/2023 07:12

But it isn’t the spaniels and the Labs and the cross breeds with poodles killing people.

It may have resulted in poorly socialised dogs , but they aren’t killing people.

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/05/2023 09:02

oakleaffy · 18/05/2023 22:58

The bitch regained weight once she had stopped feeding her pups -
Believe me I tried to get him to feed her more.

Sadly he had a very bad home situation- I can’t say too much , but he was being used.

A very sad all round situation.

I've known of a similar "unaware" (for want of a better word) abuse situation.

I was admiring a lady's springer spaniel on a dog walk and commented how small he was for an adult dog - was he the runt of the litter? She told me how they came to get it. Her husband worked for the council and was sent to do a repair to someone's home - a middle-aged man with learning disabilities on his own - and realised that there was a spaniel crammed into a rabbit hutch in the back garden. He asked the bloke did he not want the dog - YES! He DID want the dog. Plus some abuse etc Made a mental note to contact RSPCA.

RSPCA did nothing - dog was fed and watered and that was that as far as they were concerned, though apparently they offered some "advice". He went to the house again off his own bat to offer to buy the dog. This time the man's sister was also there - she didn't live with him, but visited. She told the man to hand the dog over, which after some argument he did. Dog was 18 months old and had been in a rabbit hutch almost all of its life.

It was (as you can imagine) just a bag od bones, covered with sh!t, wick with fleas and ticks, and hair so matted the vet had to anaesthetise it to shave it. Was terrified of everything. They'd done an amazing job with it and it was a lovely, if slightly shy little dog, but small for the breed. I was amazed that its temperament hadn't been spoiled.

I just hope that that man didn't get another one.

It's frightening to think how much "accidental" cruelty there must be out there.

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/05/2023 09:05

AlwaysGinPlease · 18/05/2023 22:00

@oakleaffy not a bad bloke?! He's a cruel POS and an animal abuser. You were aware and you did nothing. You're as bad.

That's harsh - @oakleaffy tried to advise, and that's as much as you can do. other than contact the RSPCA - and in my experience they are a waste of space. They have no authority and are reluctant to speak to anyone who might be a threat to them.

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/05/2023 09:20

Grumpusaurus · 19/05/2023 02:26

It is tragic. However, that woman really was at fault for walking such a large group of dogs with some being especially problematic. That many dogs is extremely excessive and bang out of order, as it could have represented a massive danger to other people and dogs! I say this as a dog lover and owner. As sad as the events are, I still rather it was the person culpable than any innocent bystanders.

I agree.

Even if they were the sweetest dogs in the world, you can't even efficiently poo-pick if you are walking that many.

A local dog walker and self-professed dog "expert" near me often walked six, and obviously took them to park areas where they could be let off lead and have a good run (which is fine), but often missed them toileting and had to have her attention drawn to the fact. One in particular used to get into the nearby fields where there were occasionally cattle, and she used to leash the rest so they didn't follow her, and leave them with me or another member of the dog-walking crowd until she'd got it back. (It was a GSD-sized dog; good-natured but with absolutely no recall, and took some catching.) Happily I rarely see her since 1st lockdown and think she might have given up the business.

Ironically there used to be 8-10 people walking and about 20- 25 dogs and we never had a fight. Since covid most people don't seem to walk in large groups and dog fights are almost everyday occurrences (though rarely serious).

GabrielleLegs · 19/05/2023 09:23

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/05/2023 09:05

That's harsh - @oakleaffy tried to advise, and that's as much as you can do. other than contact the RSPCA - and in my experience they are a waste of space. They have no authority and are reluctant to speak to anyone who might be a threat to them.

It's not harsh if you read the comments in the context of the thread. Initially the oakleaffy told us nothing of the 'tried to advise' and 'make him feed her more' information. She began just by saying he wasn't a bad person despite the neglect. You're applying hindsight to AlwaysGinPlease's comment.

AlwaysGinPlease · 19/05/2023 13:47

@GabrielleLegs thank you.

@Emotionalsupportviper really? That's harsh? I'll tell you what IS fucking harsh, breeding a dog over and over, neglecting it , and @oakleaffy doing fuck all to help the poor dog when they should have.

A dog, any animal, like a child or elderly person, is helpless and depends on the human in charge of it.

If this was an underfed neglected and abused child would you be so sympathetic?!. Both are helpless. No excuses.

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/05/2023 14:09

AlwaysGinPlease · 19/05/2023 13:47

@GabrielleLegs thank you.

@Emotionalsupportviper really? That's harsh? I'll tell you what IS fucking harsh, breeding a dog over and over, neglecting it , and @oakleaffy doing fuck all to help the poor dog when they should have.

A dog, any animal, like a child or elderly person, is helpless and depends on the human in charge of it.

If this was an underfed neglected and abused child would you be so sympathetic?!. Both are helpless. No excuses.

I hope that I would have done what the council workman did - tried to buy the dog. I'd also have taken food for the dog whenever I visited.

I assume that @oakleaffy reported it to the RSPCA, but she may have been in the sort of job where this was considered a breach of confidentiality.

I think @oakleaffy did as much as she felt she could.

Personally I think that dog breeding should be much more strictly regulated, and that you should have to get a licence to have even ONE litter from your bitch (yes - people would still break the rules, but it would still send the message that random breeding wasn't right).

HaggisBurger · 19/05/2023 15:31

Just saw this sadly. Sure it will have been a daschund or labradoodle. 😡

Dog walker killed by her own XL Bully Breed dog.
berksandbeyond · 19/05/2023 16:35

HaggisBurger · 19/05/2023 15:31

Just saw this sadly. Sure it will have been a daschund or labradoodle. 😡

Oh definitely. It’ll be a family spaniel, defo not a devil dog owned by a scum bag.

oakleaffy · 19/05/2023 17:53

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/05/2023 14:09

I hope that I would have done what the council workman did - tried to buy the dog. I'd also have taken food for the dog whenever I visited.

I assume that @oakleaffy reported it to the RSPCA, but she may have been in the sort of job where this was considered a breach of confidentiality.

I think @oakleaffy did as much as she felt she could.

Personally I think that dog breeding should be much more strictly regulated, and that you should have to get a licence to have even ONE litter from your bitch (yes - people would still break the rules, but it would still send the message that random breeding wasn't right).

Thanks @Emotionalsupportviper I and others did what we could in very difficult circumstances.

You have an understanding of the issues .

One cannot just take a dog from someone - It’s not that simple.

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/05/2023 18:04

If even the RSPCA can't just seize a pet, then an ordinary citizen certainly can't @oakleaffy .

You must have been tormented to have your hands tied.

oakleaffy · 19/05/2023 18:11

@Emotionalsupportviper Absolutely.
I absolutely oppose breeding in this way, and the bitch did love her owner.
I have called RSPCA in the past, and I was told by one Inspector that my “ Standards were too high”-
How thin does an animal actually have to be?
It’s very depressing.
Donated food can be sold on , but at least one tries.

WhisperingAutistic · 19/05/2023 18:32

HaggisBurger · 19/05/2023 15:31

Just saw this sadly. Sure it will have been a daschund or labradoodle. 😡

Another one?
Absolutely horrific

Pandaparty · 19/05/2023 19:04

Oysterbabe · 19/05/2023 18:53

That's so upsetting. Poor little kid. Was surprised to hear the dog was only 6 months old - still a pup.

CrossBun · 19/05/2023 19:15

HaggisBurger · 19/05/2023 15:31

Just saw this sadly. Sure it will have been a daschund or labradoodle. 😡

Yes I started a thread about this one but took down. Didn’t mean to enable vote.
Anyway, calmed down a bit now.

Condolences to this man’s family.

Surely these XLs are banned under existing legislation as they’re bred from pit bulls? Doesn’t that mean they are a ‘pit bull type’? How many more times will this have to happen before the government take some sort of action? At least start looking into to the breed history and investigate legal status or make a decision. Or at least put out some comms.