to not want people to judge those who recieve benefits????

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Im a single mother of one,

i was working up until my DD (3) was born, rather than take a part time job that i knew i would always be stuck in i decided to get to college and study asubject that will lead me to a very hard working and well paid job so that i can fully support my DD in the future.

I hate recieving benefits and cannot wait untill i have finished my degree

Once i start at work i will be paying enough taxes in the future to more than cover the benefits ive recieved over the few yrs.

So why does everyone assume your a complete waste of space?? not all of us take advantage of the system!!!!

Who said anything about apologising for working hard and earning a decent wage?

I think you can be proud of the wage you earn and non apologetic about it and the career you have made without being nasty to others that havnt if it wasnt for carers in our society we would all be paying a lot more taxes for example

It cost my mom a lot more when my nan had to go into a nursing home than it ever cost the government to enable us to keep her living with us at home

Not being nasty about carers at all, and have specifically said that I know not everyone is lucky enough to be able to make free choices (although I made some pretty horrid choices myself).

Carers do an amazing job, and deserve more recognition and support, especially from the government.

My point was simply that not every one of the posters saying "It's not fair!" is one of those people.

I'm not trying to start a fight here, I've just always been taught to take responsibility for my own life, and not to blame the rest of the world.

I'm honestly interested - would people really rather we lived in a communist state than in a capitalist one?

i am still laughing at nobody being forced to take out credit

like theres actually a choice for most people on a low income

pennybenjamin said 'Nobody forces somebody to take out a mortgage or a credit card.'
Sometimes conditions mean you have no choice. Like when you have no real money but need to buy food, or private landlords wont adapt a house for your disabled child and there are no council houses.

What exactly is it that 'city' poeple do? They don't grow food, make poeple well, care for fellow humans, create something solid. So what is it they do that means they get monstrous salaries while 'creators' of things each of us needs to be alive get small salaries?

But Divastrop, isn't that something the Government should be doing something about? It is far too simplistic to just blame Barclays!

Do you think all banks should also be charities? And we can't just apply this to banks surely - what about Tesco who make millions of pounds a minute, or Shell whose profits run into the billions?

or if you lose your job or your spouse leaves you and you had credit and a mortgage together.

or if your child develops or is born with a disability.

Well you're not forced to eat you know Diva.
And you could always forage in bins, you know.

Yes, but you're talking about circumstances making people turn to credit, not the banks themselves, and whatever you think about them, they are businesses, not charities. And what you're really saying is that the benefit system is not doing its job, so people have to use credit, which is a fair point, but not really the banks' fault.

Needmorecoffee - The majority of the workforce in this country now works in service industries - I'm afraid only a tiny percentage of people in this country grows food, cures people, helps fellow humans or makes something solid.

What city businesses do is create an environment which allows you to get a mortgage, or a bank account, or a pension, or insurance. What they also do is boost our economy, and pay billions in taxes to the government. Believe me, you'd notice if they weren't there.

Being made redundant a few years ago has affected me more than I imagined. For someone who has always worked and suddenly found myself having to claim benefit (twice) I now take nothing for granted.

I squirrel away pennies, I sell on ebay..if something goes wrong at work I panic that I will be sacked. Yes, I could sue them for unfair dismissal but it would still mean being back on benefit while I waited for it to go to court. I take more crap there than I should because I have an irrational fear of being on benefit again.

It was a bloody miserable life, crushing.

I feel sorry I spent the best part of 8 years sneering at the wasters in the post office queue with their benefit books and such like, leccy meters, milk tokens etc because later on, that was me.

So the banks create an environment which allowas you tp get a bank account, or a pension?
What are you on about? People have bank accounts to access the money they earn- if they didn't exist we would be paid in cash- not a big deal really.
A pension? Well, you could save up on your own, just as well as paying into something.
These are not necessary things and whoever said city people/bankers are overpaid is right.
The big bonuses and nouveau-riche attitudes stink

peanutbear - your comment ' think you can be proud of the wage you earn and non apologetic about it and the career you have made without being nasty to others that havnt'

Totally agree. I dont think anyone on here is being nasty towards those who havent. In fact I think it is the opposite - with pot shots being taken against the city types. And I am totally bemused. How do people think we have had such a booming and healthy economy for the last however many years?

and with comment from mrs ruffulo towards the city types, I rest my case. The only negativity is one sided on this debate methinks.

yes I didnt put my self across very well I also meant that it works viva versa as well that you shouldnt be slated because you work hard and earn a lot of money

unfortunatly the English dont do this that well depending o which side of the fence you are looking from

Again, what does 'working hard' have to do with earning well? Or with government policies and societal attitudes that penalise and revile the poor but reward corporate greed astronomically?

An individual working hard, that is?

Isn't a bit arrogant to presume everything pertains to oneself and is a personal affront? Does no one think collectively anymore? Or construe things as being directed towards a collective or originating as a collective ideal?

How sophomoric.

What would you like to see happen then expat

I know my outlook is very conservative I have been enlightened in politics often by reading threads on here

Should we penalise everybody that acheives a certain wage even more than the tax they already pay

I dont believe that we should swallow the money that Northern Rock has lost due to bad management and debt lending but neither do I think its right that people should lose their savings/homes

I am interested in how the government will handle foreclosures if we head even further into a recession I wonder if they can recover when they directly will be the ones that have to reposses peoples homes
There will be a massive backlash if people get fatcat payouts

Today's news is that the 200,000 core long term unemployed (the ones who haven't fixed it so they're on incapacity benefit) will have to work for 4 weeks whether they like it or not or lose benefits I think. That kind of thing which does help people get back into work is a very good idea.

I am not against having some welfare state but there's no reason people shouldn't do at least some nominal work whilst the state is paying.

As for why they bailed out Norther Rock it's because of all those labour MPs up North who would otherwise lose their seats. The South supports the North - we need independence for greater London I think.....

I'd like to see a change in attitude, for one, peanut. Wistful thinking, I know.

It would be nice if employers were compelled to pay a living wage instead of being allowed to pay less than that and the low-income employee's wage is topped up by the taxpayer through tax credits, but I realise there will be resistance to this because big business will say this discourages and is a barrier to business.

For starters.

Have to get the girls ready for bed so have one eye on other things, but will return to this later.

I used to live in a town with a 2% rate of unemployment, which apparently is deemed to be negative unemployment- the town was in a bit of a boom, had hundreds of unfilled jobs, yet there was still 2% unemployment. Makes you think...

we need independence for greater London I think.....

I'll agree with you there!

Hmm, that would make a good research topic, what is the lifespan of city-states, historically, as opposed to nations?

peanutbear - DH and I were wondering about the exact same thing the other night. What will the govt do with those who default on their mortgage payments.

expat - what do you suggest? Because i dont think for a second that taxing high earners/ non doms etc anymore than they already are will solve the problems we have. Because that isnt where things are broken IMO.