to not want people to judge those who recieve benefits????

[TidyTink]

Im a single mother of one,

i was working up until my DD (3) was born, rather than take a part time job that i knew i would always be stuck in i decided to get to college and study asubject that will lead me to a very hard working and well paid job so that i can fully support my DD in the future.

I hate recieving benefits and cannot wait untill i have finished my degree

Once i start at work i will be paying enough taxes in the future to more than cover the benefits ive recieved over the few yrs.

So why does everyone assume your a complete waste of space?? not all of us take advantage of the system!!!!

Thank you, dizie, for putting so eloquently the point I failed entirely to get across.

The number of hours one work's is proportional to one's earnings only very rarely, if you look at employees the world over. It certainly isn't a very solid yardstick by which to measure one's worth when it comes to monetary compensation.

expat - the hours someone works of course not the only factor in determining a salary. far far more factors come into it.

I take my hat off to anyone who works in an environment like the City. I know that I wouldn't be able to cut it - so someone who does and makes money. Fair play.

Yes, dal, you've made that very clear.

The argument that salary should be proportional to hours/value to society/whatever is just not one that is worth having.

Of course I would love for nurses/teachers/firemen to earn what they are clearly worth, but I don't get to make that decision.

The fact is that anyone could have done what I've done and be earning what I earn (and with my shitty comprehensive education I am proof positive that you can do it without "family connections").

So why don't they? I made a choice to work my arse off and earn money. Other people made different choices, but they could have done the same as me. But I'm judged and told I'm earning "too much".

If you want to earn my salary, come and do my job. Nobody is saying that it's the hardest or most valuable job in the world. But you could have it if you'd made the same choices as me, so why complain just because you didn't? I don't understand.

gosh, you are angry, expat. I don't think that the northern rock shareholders have been bailed out- but correct me if i'm worng. They may end up with nothing at all if the bank is wound down, as i understand it.

good posts penny

PB "people are very willing to take the benefits of people taking risks in banking when times are good, in terms of taxes paid, boost to the economy, low interest rates, etc. But when things turn bad it's suddenly all someone else's fault, and no-one wants to talk about the billions of pounds run up on consumer credit cards in this country during the boom times."

Many of these people taking risks do so by deliberately targetting those who are financially naive and gullible. You appear to be saying that they should take credit for all the financial success that our economy enjoys but none of the responsibility for many of the despicable, amoral practices that they engage in that deliberately as well as relentlessly targets the financially naive in society.

"and no-one wants to talk about the billions of pounds run up on consumer credit cards in this country during the boom times"

Again, why do financial institutions continue to pursue consumers with bad credit ratings with credit cards etc? Why do they make it easy for consumers to run up huge debts? Because it is in their interest to do so because it leads to fat bonuses!!

Why don't they take responsibility for their actions, stop enslaving the financially vulnerably with credit that they cannot afford and start acting responsibly?

This is argument that those hard workers in the city don't get.

I absolutely appreciate that there are situations which make people's choices harder (or impossible), and that I am lucky I was able to make my own choices, but I don't believe that applies to everyone who is complaining about "fat cats" here.

It just annoys me when people refuse to take responsibility for their own lives, and instead blame it on people who are more fortunate (for whatever reason) than they are.

you're all just jealous! you could have been rich too if only you had tried harder! Too bad you made such dumb choices! now get off your lazy behinds and on yer bikes!

The last time I heard this sort of thing was back in the 80s. well pouf skirts and rahrah skirts came back so i suppose this self justifying crap was due a comeback too.

No problems expat. I'm pretty pissed about this so am amazed I can be coherent!

"Trickle Down" doesn't work Penny. You wanna see the results of trickle down for the poorest half of society I suggest you travel to my DH's home town near Detroit. The middle classes are almost extinct in some parts of the US thanks to "Trickle Down" policies. Of course, for certain unsavoury right-authoritarian politicians that is a desirable result...

Our economy is certainly not one of the most regulated in the world, and I believe it is exactly situations like this that make a case for better regulations. No institutions should have the ability to risk the stability of the world economy. You could still have an economy where risk is allowable, just not so much risk.

Meh, so much more I want to say, but DD is hassling me to go meet her Daddy!

Spokette - I appreciate you have a particular axe to grind here, but what you are saying is that people shouldn't have to take responsibility for their own financial decisions. Yes, there are unscrupulous operators out there, but these still operate under some of the tightest consumer protection legislation in the world.

Nobody forces somebody to take out a mortgage or a credit card. You are arguing that people are too stupid to understand about credit, and that the nanny state should instead run their lives for them.

Don't agree with you I'm afraid. People should take responsibility for their own actions.

And when I look around at my office of people still working here at midnight tonight, I will remember your hard workers jibe.

we can't regulate the market! the market is a timid thing, like a shy unicorn. don't look at it too sternly or it may run away or collapse in a fit of nerves!

Am interested in what countries you think the financial markets are more regulated than in the UK and US?

I was on benefits once my DH was a violent depresive and I had to get away taking my DS with me
I applied for Housing benefit and for a flat and Income support I had no choice in the block of masonettes where I was put there were women who had been through all sorts of problems and this was there only hope of keeping there children fed and clothed

I tried to go back to work way before tax credits and I couldn't afford the first months nursery fees the government wouldn't help me so I had to stay on benefits

I disagree with anyone claiming when they shouldn't be but in my limited 18 months experience this is rarely the case

Options to study should be made available to all and not feel penalised by being on benifits

to the OP good on you for going out there to get qualifications you can be one of them proving all the cynics wrong in a few years

I'm angry, suey, that two of the richest countries in the world have governments and societies which continually villify, isolate and denegrate their poor by policy and attitude.

Because it shows a truly terrible lack of humanity, of basic compassion to say nothing of understanding or support, and is a huge waste of resources.

right, am not running off and deserting. DS needs food, bath and bed.

Penny - totally agree with you.

spokette- because we all expect free banking in this country, the banks have to make their money somehow. as i understand it, personal banking is not what results in the big bonuses etc, it barely pays for itself. thus credit card rates.

Where did I say that people should not take responsibility for their own financial decisions. Of course they should. And so should financial instiutions who smarme their way into peoples homes with their seductive advertising and promise of milk and honey if you sign up to this credit card today.

I'm fortunate in that the only debt I have is my mortgage. However,it does not stop me from being inundated with mountains of pleas to sign up to this and that credit card. These financial institutions are predators and parasites.

They know there are gullible weak people out there and they prey on them.

As for your indignation at my hard workers comment, why? Lots of people work hard but they don't expect to be revered for it. You sound like you want a medal.

You see, Fio, you are demonstrating what is so troubling about a prevasive attitude in society: that when people are poor, in debt or experience financial difficulties it is all their fault, they deserve what they get and more besides - to be punished somehow, to be put down.

It's a Victorian ideal that should have been consigned to history or the graves of the great Robber Barons of the Industrial Revolution.

But it's alive and well!

BTW, I have never had to live entirely off benefits, thankfully.

and if you work extremely hard abd have a decent wage you must apologise for it?