Should I report benefit fraud?

[Greeksummer]

Firstly, this isn’t a benefit bashing thread. It’s something I feel hugely conflicted about.

A couple I know is committing benefit fraud and have been for quite a few years. They live together with their school aged child however, the dad is not actually down as being at the address so their rent is paid for as the mum works part time, as well as single persons council tax discount. The dad earns a very good salary (not 6 figures but for where we live in the UK it’s a lot of money) so there’s absolutely no excuse for it. I know the mum better than the dad and she’s quite open about it all and money in general. Both of their parents’ help them out as well - regularly buying their weekly food shop, covering the costs of their child’s school uniform every year, school trips etc (no issue with parent’s helping out if they’re able to, I’m just highlighting that they’re in no way struggling financially).

It just makes me so cross as I know a disabled person who’s benefits were stopped as they were deemed not disabled enough and had a horrendous ordeal trying to get them back. I think it’s so wrong that they’re taking money they’re not entitled to and don’t need when so many people are struggling. However, I’m also aware that it’s a drop in the ocean compared to what millionaires and billionaires get away with hence why I’m conflicted as to whether I should report it or not.

YABU - keep your nose out, people get away with much worse

YANBU - it’s wrong and you should report it

To be fair.... That's not always possible.

Having a conviction for benefit fraud has no bearing upon a tenancy.

Didn't stop my ex from informing me he was going to report me for fraud and get me put out on the street as a punishment (possibly assuming that, as is the case, benefits are stopped without warning whilst the investigation is in progress, this would mean bailiffs for council tax and bills, power cut off, no food and then eviction after imprisonment and children put into care) when I dumped him.

But then again, I wasn't claiming benefits, either. Would have been screwed if I had and his reports had gone anywhere - it's a common method of coercive control.

Report. Parasites.

I probably wouldn’t but can’t put my finger on why.

I am not in any way up to not good myself, for the sake of a pp who argued that.

I think because I tend to suspect some kind of abuse in these “man claims not to live there but does” type of threads, but obviously that won’t be always the case

I used to be a benefits advisor for a charity and I wouldn't report suspected benefits fraud. It's usually a drop in the ocean and no good comes out of it, usually a load of grief and no resolution. Save your anger for those committing huge levels of tax avoidance and evasion.

What I've never understood on mn is how people know these benefit cheats who're so open to them about cheating. Makes me think they're not the most honest either because I can't imagine someone I know telling me or bragging to me about cheating the system or just doing something wrong/criminal/illegal in the first place unless they're confessing and wanting me to help them sort it out or something.

So why is this person so free to express wrong doing with you, hmm? You've come to mumsnet to ask if you should report but you've probably not told her off, corrected her, told her what she's doing is wrong and you think they should stop, or have you?

What do you do when she tells you these things? [Asking not only OP but all the other posters who seem to personally know fraudsters]

I find these threads so hard to believe. Why would somebody openly tell lots of people they're committing benefit fraud, knowing they could get sent to prison.

The cynic in me says people make this stuff up to start benefit bashing arguments.

Yep. Suspiciously there seem to be an awful lot of people who are dying to tell mumsnetters that they are committing benefit fraud. 🤔

Hopefully the benefits that they are wrongfully claiming will be stopped. Or do you believe everyone should lie and claim something they are not entitled to? Do you think the money for benefits grows on trees?

I'm stretching to not believe it because lots of these threads seem to crop up and it's incredibly unbelievable that people committing fraud would be telling all and sundry about it. Do you tell all your acquaintances the detailed ins and outs of your finances?

Keep your nose out. I also know someone who is doing this but I wouldn’t report it. Not going to achieve anything really, and also they do take your details when you report I wouldn’t believe you would always be anonymous!

It's a crime on society like vandalism, and it hurts everyone, not only people paying for benefits, but those on them as well.

It takes money away from people who need it. Not only that it is bad press for the people actually on benefits, as every time people read threads like this it gives them the perception that there are a lot of people out their on the (unjustified) take.

Some people do. Because they don't see it as a big deal. Same as some people openly talk about taking coke at dinner parties or making false insurance claims.

I've got an asshole of a cousin who laughs about reporting his Amazon deliveries as missing if the driver leaves it outside, gets a refund or replacement and sells them on. He doesn't see it as a big deal because Anazon make loads of money.

You can stay with your partner/have them stay over every single night and still not be committing fraud.

If the partner has his own address, and that is where his clothes etc are kept, where his car is registered and insured, is used for his bank, HMRC, his employer etc, any decision by DWP to stop her benefits would be challengeable.

If they eat all their meals together, that would reduce her chances of succeeding at any appeal, but that's not a given.

I've won 2 alleged cohabitation appeals for clients, and my colleagues have won another 3 in the last few years. The question of number of nights spent together has never even been asked. In every one, the tribunal seemed to attach more weight to where "stuff" was kept than anything else. They also seemed to accept that the children's father stayed over regularly to help with childcare and to maintain a relationship with his children.

I've also seen first hand the utter misery that has been caused when benefits are suspended for months (it can take a year) and someone has sod all to live on, which is why I'm never in favour of reporting.

It's also worth bearing in mind that if someone is on UC, they can be getting huge amounts in child maintenance and it isn't taken into account.

Do you like this friend? If you do, and want to stay friends but can't separate this behavior, I'd drop it into conversation in a subtle way next time she boasts of her fraud. Maybe "I'd feel really uncomfortable doing that knowing that I don't really deserve it" Maybe you'll milk just enough about her attitude to help you decide whether this is a friendship you want to keep.

A lot of people are telling you to report this, and are rightly calling it fraud and stealing. In the real world there its not quite as cut and dry as to just report. People are ostracised for being a 'grass' and as some people have mentioned, you might not be 100% certain that there isn't some circumstance you don't know about.

The DWP budget doesn't work like that. If someone is entitled to a benefit, and they apply, they get it, and if the budget is overspent, so be it.

I'm fully expecting the PIP budget to be overspent in a year or two, because the number of applications doubled in 22/23 compared to previous years.

Why don’t you report the giant corporations who don’t pay tax. Amazon is one but I’ll bet you use their services. This country isn’t on its knees because of people on benefits (not much of a lifestyle is it); it’s on its knees because of greedy Tories making sure there’s money for them and their mates and because of ludicrous tax loopholes. Wanting to report someone for alleged benefit fraud always smacks of deep unhappiness and jealousy to me. Mind your own business and if you’re not happy, change it

How did you know it’s a drop in the ocean? Clearly most people don’t report and many are at it themselves, based on this thread.

I really dislike this point. Yes, I agree that the big corporations should be paying tax at a fair rate. But that stance shouldn't give private citizens carte blanche to commit fraud.

No of course it shouldn’t but what I’ve stated is correct. Benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to what these corporations are able to get away with.

He absolutely doesn’t live elsewhere or have another house. From what I know he uses his parents address for anything official but he hasn’t lived there for years.

It’s jarring but it’s endemic. Keep your nose out. No good can come of reporting this

You’re obviously not from a low income area. This really isn’t uncommon and as I’ve said, most people in my town don’t think of it as committing a crime. There’s also a huge stigma against being a grass which is probably the main thing stopping me from reporting.

The issue with this couple is that they’re not doing it because they’re struggling to make ends meet, they’re doing it because they can get away with it. Although, I’m starting to wonder if they don’t even realise how wrong it is because it’s so normalised where we are.

This isn't true - I've been reported and it was anonymous.

Yes this is really weird.