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The WHO want your four year old to be taught about masturbation and gender identity

316 replies

GrabbyGabby · 14/05/2023 10:47

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/13/outrage-over-who-advice-on-sexuality-for-infants/

This is where queer theory gets you. Women have been sounding the alarm on the consequences of the promotion of queer theory in all realms of life. This is what it looks like when applies to sex ed for very young children.

So, before you dismiss people like me as modern day Mary Whitehouses, just take a read and ask yourself why? What problem is this solving? Why do very young children need to be taught about sex and sexual pleasure? Are they benefiting, if not, who is?

(article behind a paywall, but there is a trick that will allow you to read it. A quick google should tell you).

Outrage over WHO advice on sexuality for infants

Guide argues that ‘sexuality education starts from birth’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/13/outrage-over-who-advice-on-sexuality-for-infants

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
CurlewKate · 14/05/2023 14:04

I'm not advocating it. But what's wrong with small children knowing about masturbation? Many of them do it-how is it wrong for them to know it's OK?

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:04

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.

Masturbation as a symptom of child sexual abuse - an analysis of the problem in the historical context of sexual deviations involving children.

https://www.cabdirect.org/globalhealth/abstract/20193405693

Restricted Content

Restricted Content page for Global Health

https://www.cabdirect.org/globalhealth/abstract/20193405693

Datun · 14/05/2023 14:05

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:02

" Open displays of sexuality, for example, repeated public masturbation "

In a child abuse information document I have, as a sign of sexual abuse.

Indeed. And this is the issue I was mentioning. It's all about the wording. Children touch themselves. Most of us have children - and we've all been one.

By the same token, masturbation can absolutely be a sign of abuse. It's not either/or.

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:05

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.

Warning signs that children may have been sexual abused include:

  • children's excessive fascination with adult sexual themes
  • children's display of sexualized actions, gestures, language, or knowledge in advance of peer's actions, gestures, language or knowledge suggesting a much greater level of experience or sophistication than peers.
  • children engaging in or attempting extensive mutual sexual play with same age or younger children
  • children engaging in excessive masturbation or demonstrating a preoccupation with sexual activities and ideas
  • children engaging in sexual behaviors in public
  • children's int

https://www.mentalhelp.net/abuse/warning-signs-of-sexual-abuse/

Sexual Abuse Warning Signs

Parents of school-aged children need to be alert for signs their child is acting out sexually in ways that seems inappropriate or premature. Children of this

https://www.mentalhelp.net/abuse/warning-signs-of-sexual-abuse

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:06

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 13:45

IT IS NOT A WHO DOCUMENT.

READ THE THREAD.

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WHOStandards-for-Sexuality-Ed-in-Europe.pdf

It is a WHO document (stop shouting). You might be ok with teaching your very young children to masturbate and sexual intercourse and all the pleasure that comes with it, but most parents would want their children to be a lot older before they learn about these.

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WHOStandards-for-Sexuality-Ed-in-Europe.pdf

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 14:06

Datun · 14/05/2023 13:59

I believe they brought it all to the government's attention. The government have said they won't be implementing all the advice.

But that is one of the points of the safe schools alliance.

Prevention. Which, in that case, would appear to be working.

There may not be many schools willing to teach children how to masturbate, although even one, is an issue.

But there will be very, very many organisations trying to get them to.

That document has been circulating since 2010. The government didn't need the 'safe schools alliance' to bring it to their attention since it was never proposed it would be implemented.

IamAlso4eels · 14/05/2023 14:06

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 13:39

I'm not sure you understand that precocious understanding of sexuality in children is a sign of SEXUAL ABUSE. So if any child knew about masturbation and pleasure at that age, investigations would go on to find out who taught them about this. Teaching children that young is called GROOMING and is a sign of abuse or molestation. That's how doctors, child psychologists and social workers/services know a child has been abused. So if those 2 countries you mentioned allow this to occur, then if a child is actually sexually abused there is no way to tell.

Children who know the correct names for their body parts and who know what is or isn't appropriate in terms of how those body parts should be treated both by themselves and others actually tend to be at lower risk of abuse than those who don't. Knowledge brings confidence and confident children are better equipped to speak up.

Little Timmy knows that his body is his own and that no one except him is allowed to touch it unless they have specific reasons to do so (e.g., a doctor). He knows about PANTS and that private parts are private, he also knows the names for his private parts. He knows what qualities make a good friend and the properties of a positive relationship. He knows about tricky people and what to do if he encounters a tricky person (we don't teach stranger danger now). He knows that if anyone - child or adult - makes him feel uncomfortable for any reason then he should talk about it with a trusted adult such as his mum/dad or his teacher.

Little Johnny doesn't know any of that.

Which child do you think is more likely to be targeted by an abuser and which child do you think is better equipped to recognise that something isn't right?

That's how doctors, child psychologists and social workers/services know a child has been abused. So if those 2 countries you mentioned allow this to occur, then if a child is actually sexually abused there is no way to tell.

Knowing about their bodies and the names of body parts is not a safeguarding concern. Knowing how babies are made is not a safeguarding alert. Safeguarding concerns are all about context.

Professionals don't know a child has been abused based purely on them having knowledge about sex. Yes, one of the things were taught to be aware of is a knowledge of sex that is not age appropriate but there is a world of difference between "my dad had a sperm and my mum had an egg and they put them together to make a baby and now I have a new brother!" (a real comment a child has made to me) and a child making explicit comments about sexual practices - there is context. I have had a child draw a picture of his family and in the picture the stick-figure mum had a bare breast with a second stick-figure standing directly beside it with an open-O mouth, sounds worrying except mum had recently had a baby and was breastfeeding so when he drew his family he drew mum feeding the baby - again, it's context.

Precocious sexual knowledge is just one warning sign of CSA and we are taught to look for others alongside it such as a child being withdrawn, emotional, showing inappropriate behaviours, using inappropriate language, bruising, injuries, infections, etc. because - once more - it's all looked at within context.

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:08

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.

Signs of child sexual abuseChildren who've been sexually abused may exhibit changes in emotions or behaviour, or display physical signs of sexual abuse. This may include:

  • knowing more about sexual activities than other children their age
  • playing in a sexual way
  • masturbating more than what's typical for their age and stage of development

https://www.qld.gov.au/community/getting-support-health-social-issue/support-victims-abuse/child-abuse/child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-signs

Signs of child sexual abuse

Find out the signs of child sexual abuse.

https://www.qld.gov.au/community/getting-support-health-social-issue/support-victims-abuse/child-abuse/child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-signs

YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/05/2023 14:08

It is a WHO document (stop shouting). You might be ok with teaching your very young children to masturbate and sexual intercourse and all the pleasure that comes with it, but most parents would want their children to be a lot older before they learn about these.

Lucky no one is proposing this then!

DrBlackbird · 14/05/2023 14:08

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 13:45

IT IS NOT A WHO DOCUMENT.

READ THE THREAD.

ICMEC uploaded a WHO publication. Right there on the cover page it states ‘WHO’ regional office. With the WHO logo.

May I respectfully point out that the use of ad hominem attacks and use of capital letters such that it is you who might be ‘frothing’…

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/WHO-Curriculum-Matrix-for-CSE-in-Europe.pdf

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/WHO-Curriculum-Matrix-for-CSE-in-Europe.pdf

Datun · 14/05/2023 14:09

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 14:06

That document has been circulating since 2010. The government didn't need the 'safe schools alliance' to bring it to their attention since it was never proposed it would be implemented.

I believe they were comparing wording from WHO, UNESCO, and PIE, about 'children's sexuality' and finding that they couldn't really tell one from the other.

Also, the fact that a potentially disturbing document has been around for over ten years doesn't, in my opinion, decrease the message it's trying to send, nor the determination of those trying to send it.

CheeseTouch · 14/05/2023 14:13

@YetAnotherSpartacus said

A big focus of the WHO is working with girls to teach them acceptable boundaries and recognise the warning signs of gender-based violence and also that early, forced marriage is not inevitable.

Too right, and why would anyone be trying to discredit the WHO for preventing the suffering of women and girls worldwide?

Is that the agenda here? Because I’m hyper vigilant about safeguarding and I don’t see red flags in the formal WHO 2018 guidance.

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:13

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:41

They already know about masturbation because they all do it.
Nobody is teaching them.
And they do need to learn about boundaries.

I didn’t even think of touching myself down there until a couple of years into puberty. Didn’t really think of it until secondary school. If very young children are fingering themselves or touching their penis then that’s a safeguarding concern.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/05/2023 14:15

Is that the agenda here? Because I’m hyper vigilant about safeguarding and I don’t see red flags in the formal WHO 2018 guidance.

Yes, I agree. Seems that some people are cherry-picking phrases and not placing them in the wider context.

IamAlso4eels · 14/05/2023 14:19

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:13

I didn’t even think of touching myself down there until a couple of years into puberty. Didn’t really think of it until secondary school. If very young children are fingering themselves or touching their penis then that’s a safeguarding concern.

No, it's not! You'd be surprised how many times a day I have to tell children to take their hand out of their pants or to let go of the front of their pants.

As an FYI, puberty can begin as early as age 8 and children should have knowledge ahead of time about what changes will happen to them so that they're emotionally equipped when the time comes.

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 14:19

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:06

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WHOStandards-for-Sexuality-Ed-in-Europe.pdf

It is a WHO document (stop shouting). You might be ok with teaching your very young children to masturbate and sexual intercourse and all the pleasure that comes with it, but most parents would want their children to be a lot older before they learn about these.

It is NOT a WHO document. Which has been repeatedly pointed out. Which is why you should READ THE THREAD and why I'm SHOUTING because posters like you keep posting it.

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-ireland-children-sex-education-curriculum-masturbation-5158825-Jul2020/

It is a document published by the Federal Centre for health education in Germany. It says so in the top right of the document.

It is NOT a WHO document.

FactCheck: Will children be taught how to masturbate as part of their education from September?

The claim had been made by social media users.

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-ireland-children-sex-education-curriculum-masturbation-5158825-Jul2020

Springissprunging · 14/05/2023 14:20

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:13

I didn’t even think of touching myself down there until a couple of years into puberty. Didn’t really think of it until secondary school. If very young children are fingering themselves or touching their penis then that’s a safeguarding concern.

How exactly are boys supposed to go to the toilet or clean themselves properly if merely touching their penis is considered a safeguarding concern

Repeatedly masturbating in public alongside other concerning behaviours is one thing, acting like a child is not allowed to touch part of their own body is a very different thing.

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:20

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.

Childhood masturbation has been linked to emotional deprivation, which may in turn lead to more self-stimulation. It may also be associated with sexual abuse.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2994165/#:~:text=Childhood%20masturbation%20has%20been%20linked,lead%20to%20more%20self%2Dstimulation.&text=It%20may%20also%20be%20associated%20with%20sexual%20abuse.

https://adw.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/09/Sexual-Abuse-Indicators-Tip-Sheet.pdf

  • Sexual signs of Sexual AbuseIncreased questions about human sexuality
  • Excessive masturbation or masturbating in public

Sexual
· Over attention to adults of a particular sex
· Displaying unusual interest in the genitals of others
· Acting out adult sexual behaviour with adults, dolls or other children
· Open displays of sexuality, for example, repeated public masturbation
· Precocious knowledge of sexual matters
· Promiscuity, repetitious sexually precocious behaviour.

It's also important to know that regular frequent and prolonged masturbation can be an indication of stress or sexual abuse. I will briefly discuss these two possible underlying causes.
Children who are stressed or who have experienced any kind of trauma often develop self-stimulating behaviors such as thumb sucking, self-rocking, or masturbation. These repetitive behaviors can be an indication that a child is holding in painful emotions. If you think that your daughter is using masturbation in this way, it would be useful to look for possible sources of stress (or trauma) in her life, and to reduce stress, if possible. She would also benefit from being allowed greater freedom to release painful emotions through tears, tantrums, play, and laughter, as described in my books.
Sexual abuse is a specific kind of trauma that can lead to masturbation. Children who have been sexually abused develop a precocious awareness of their genitals and often begin to masturbate. It's important to be aware of this possible cause, especially if you notice other symptoms of sexual abuse (such as an increase in fears or nightmares, regression in toileting habits, social withdrawal, or reluctance to stay with a specific person).
If your daughter is otherwise happy and outgoing, however, and her self-stimulating behavior occurs only occasionally, you probably don't need to be too concerned about it.
http://www.awareparenting.com/answer6.htm

Infantile and early childhood masturbation: Sex hormones and clinical profile

Few studies have explored the hormonal triggers for masturbation in infants and young children. Thus, we aimed to study the sex hormones and clinical profiles of masturbating infants and young children.This case-control study involved infants and young...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2994165#:~:text=Childhood%20masturbation%20has%20been%20linked,lead%20to%20more%20self%2Dstimulation.&text=It%20may%20also%20be%20associated%20with%20sexual%20abuse.

Datun · 14/05/2023 14:21

WHO has over 8000 people working for them. And it's exactly the sort of organisation whose credibility would appeal to those who have less than pure motives.

CheeseTouch · 14/05/2023 14:22

DrBlackbird · 14/05/2023 14:08

ICMEC uploaded a WHO publication. Right there on the cover page it states ‘WHO’ regional office. With the WHO logo.

May I respectfully point out that the use of ad hominem attacks and use of capital letters such that it is you who might be ‘frothing’…

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/WHO-Curriculum-Matrix-for-CSE-in-Europe.pdf

All current WHO document versions are on the WHO’s own website. If it’s current, it will be there. Can you find the document from IMEC’s website on the WHO one? No?

Happy to be corrected by those genuinely knowledgeable about international policy, but the current guidance seems to be the 2018 one.

Lcb123 · 14/05/2023 14:23

MolkosTeenageAngst · 14/05/2023 11:39

The WHO document is from 2010, it’s not new and it’s not setting out a new sex ed curriculum for the UK. The WHO recommends Children 0-4 should be given information about their body and normal touching etc but doesn’t say it should be taught and it doesn’t say by teachers or in schools. It means having a conversation with children within normal contexts as they arise, so if your child comments they touched their body (as pre-schoolers can and do) you respond in an age appropriate but non-shaming way that reassures them it’s okay and normal. It’s about having those conversations in age appropriate ways from the beginning rather than shutting down any body talk down until they’re older.

This. Stop spreading misinformation

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:25

IamAlso4eels · 14/05/2023 14:19

No, it's not! You'd be surprised how many times a day I have to tell children to take their hand out of their pants or to let go of the front of their pants.

As an FYI, puberty can begin as early as age 8 and children should have knowledge ahead of time about what changes will happen to them so that they're emotionally equipped when the time comes.

I started my period in Y6 so learning about puberty near the end of Year 4 (so age 8-9) is fine. No need to discuss sex until this time. No need to discuss masturbation at all. You’re doing the right thing by telling children to take their hands out of the pants. I don’t agree with the WHO who want young children to learn about masturbation. They can figure that out as teens.

Goodread1 · 14/05/2023 14:27

Why do children need to know be educated on stuff like this, in first place then?

I can understand better if it was teenagers being taught stuff like this.

All children need to know is their bodies are private, and that should be respected for child safety welfare protection..

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 14:29

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:13

I didn’t even think of touching myself down there until a couple of years into puberty. Didn’t really think of it until secondary school. If very young children are fingering themselves or touching their penis then that’s a safeguarding concern.

All babies do it.

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 14:31

CheeseTouch · 14/05/2023 14:22

All current WHO document versions are on the WHO’s own website. If it’s current, it will be there. Can you find the document from IMEC’s website on the WHO one? No?

Happy to be corrected by those genuinely knowledgeable about international policy, but the current guidance seems to be the 2018 one.

It is.

An organisation using a WHO logo does not mean it is a WHO publication. Especially when it clearly states the organisation that published the document and it's not the WHO.

Which has been repeatedly pointed out buy people ARE frothing about the WHO wanting children of 4 to be taught about masturbation. Which is simply not true.