to think if EU citizens can vote in local elections if they live here and if Commonwealth Citizens can vote in General Elections,

[cakeorwine]

then what's the issue with EU citizens who live here, pay taxes here etc voting in General Elections?

I don't here people complaining about EU citizens voting in local elections.

But the proposal for EU citizens to vote in general elections seems to have upset the Tories. For some reason.

Who can vote in UK elections? - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

Keir Starmer to hand vote to millions of EU nationals if Labour wins next election | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

Under the plans, migrants who live permanently and pay taxes in the UK would be able to vote in general elections for the first time.
The move is expected to enfranchise around 3.4 million EU nationals who have "settled status" in Britain
Meanwhile, 1.4 million 16 and 17-year-olds would also be able to go to the ballot box in line with Scotland and Wales.

I’m not blaming anyone, I’m just sharing how shit it is.

I actually don't have a problem with not being able to vote in GEs here. As pp have said, I could naturalise. I won't, because I want an escape route and my country is sadly one of those that won't allow dual citizenship. But stop this nonsense about people from the Commonwealth having a vote because that's blatant double standards.

Mid Google, so Sweden does

Are you sure?
Elections to the Swedish Riksdag
You are entitled to vote in the election to the Swedish Riksdag if you are a Swedish citizen and are, or were once, registered in the Population Register in Sweden.

I suppose a lot of it boils down to history - the Commonwealth has demonstrably closer links with the UK than did the rest of the EU other than Ireland, which is why Ireland is special case. Similarly, with Brexit, Malta was the only other EU country that was also in the Commonwealth. Whether is right to stick to the historical basis is another matter!

pointythings
I actually don't have a problem with not being able to vote in GEs here

Here?
I thought you had already emigrated to Canada (as an EU citizen - not British).

But stop this nonsense about people from the Commonwealth having a vote because that's blatant double standards

We voted to leave the EU - we haven't voted to leave the Commonwealth.

Just chuck in yet another curve ball..

It's possible for a British citizen working for a UK company and paying some UK tax/NI to not be allowed to vote in UK GEs (due the 15 year rule with regard to residence)...

Oops! Just remembered Cyprus is also both in the EU and the Commonwealth and Cypriots in UK were also able to vote in the Brexit referendum.

So Sweden aside which might be a yes or no going by pp

Are we aiming to be the outlier with the changes?

I think that people should have citizenship if they want to vote here. And I don't think the voting age should be reduced to 16 / 17 either.

Are we aiming to be the outlier with the changes?

It would appear so.

And Irish citizens who live in the UK can vote in general elections. I did myself for many years. I would be very surprised if 'Irish people' were a bloc of same-trending votes, or if 'EU citizens' were either.

I think yabu for not understanding the difference, because MPs have influence on matters of national and international importance so obviously it makes a huge difference if EU nationals can vote for them.

It's fine for EU nationals who are locally resident to vote for local councils as they have as much right as any local resident to have a say in who administers local matters like traffic, waste, etc.

But when it comes to electing MPs for Westminster then it will make a huge difference in some constituencies if candidates have to adapt their campaigns and policies to people who are EU citizens and not UK citizens. That's not to say it's necessarily a terrible idea but the ramifications would be huge and it needs a lot of thought. It's much more likely to be about gerrymandering to import more "naturally labour" voters into the enfranchised population. I wouldn't trust either of the main parties to be able to make a politically neutral decision on this question, and given that, no party should have the right to make such decisions.

And Irish citizens who live in the UK can vote in general elections

So, it's a long-standing reciprocal arrangement? Starmer was going on about 'preserving the British way of life' only a few days ago.

In the UK. NHS surcharge.

I don't see anything wrong with people who have permanent residency being able to vote.

They pay tax here and contribute to the workforce/economy so they should have a say on how their money is spent...

I think you need to have lived for 5 years to get permanent residency? so anyone who votes will have already shown commitment to the country.

I would rather see young people and EU citizen vote than many of the home-grown flag-shagging, Daily Fail-reading, misogynistic/racist/xenophobic people who seem to be propping up the Tories these days and brought us the Brexit disaster...

A country is made up of the people who live there. Subject to some sort of minimum residency, I think it is absolutely right that non citizens should be able to vote. I also think that Brits who have chosen to live overseas for more than say 2 years should lose the right to vote.

If you have settled or pre-settled status you do not pay for your treatment, and you are entitled to benefits.

So no, they do not pay more in tax.

I think eligibility for all elections should be based on permanent residency. So anyone living here with British (or Irish in NI) nationality or indefinite leave to remain, but not anyone else. UK nationals who have non-dom status shouldn't be eligible.

I don't think it should be based on "who pays tax" though. Partly because that is a slippery slope to excluding those who earn too little to pay tax. But mostly because government is (or at least should be) about so much more than the economy.

And I'm very against giving voting rights to 16 and 17 yo. They are children (legally) and as such have different rights because we (as a society) recognise that they need special protection due to immaturity. I don't see how we can square "they're responsible enough to vote" with "they're not responsible enough to decide to drink alcohol".

I don’t get the ‘well most other countries don’t do it’ argument. If it’s a good idea (and opinions differ on that) then it’s a good idea, things change, innovation and progress are generally good things.

I’d support it, there’s no sense in the idea that people from some countries can and others can’t. If you’ve made your life here, pay tax (or not depending on circumstances) and are part of the community then you should have your say. We don’t vote for a PM, we vote for our local MP so not all that different to local elections.

I wish Starmer would also come out for electoral reform and PR but I suspect the backlash this has got (hello Tory media) makes that unlikely any time soon.

I don't see how we can square "they're responsible enough to vote" with "they're not responsible enough to decide to drink alcohol".

Or marry, or drive, or buy a house, rent a house, get a credit card etc etc. There is a move to stop anyone under 25 sharing a car with anyone else under 25, now I don't think that will fly, but you know........

I don’t get the ‘well most other countries don’t do it’ argument.

Why? It's a good argument. It means everyone else has come up with the alternative same solution, they can't all be wrong? Why has no-one else come up with an NHS (perhaps because it was never the right solution).

It means everyone else has come up with the alternative same solution, they can't all be wrong?

Pretty much everyone used to think the Earth was flat. They were all wrong. Lots of people agreeing with you really doesn't mean you are right.

bellinisurge
No taxation without representation. If they can't vote then let's make them exempt from UK taxation. Let's see how that idea is received , shall we?

It's all very well quoting that famous refrain, but neither the United States, nor Ireland have stuck with that principal for their own elections have they.

I wish Starmer would also come out for electoral reform and PR but I suspect the backlash this has got (hello Tory media) makes that unlikely any time soon.

He's not doing that. He's already said he's not. I guess by allowing non Brits and young people to vote, but not allowing PR, which may not work in his favour, he's hoping to guarantee permanent labour power.

Yes PR is more Lib Dems avenue for greater electoral success

This is for Labour