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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think if EU citizens can vote in local elections if they live here and if Commonwealth Citizens can vote in General Elections,

346 replies

cakeorwine · 14/05/2023 09:34

then what's the issue with EU citizens who live here, pay taxes here etc voting in General Elections?

I don't here people complaining about EU citizens voting in local elections.

But the proposal for EU citizens to vote in general elections seems to have upset the Tories. For some reason.

Who can vote in UK elections? - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

Keir Starmer to hand vote to millions of EU nationals if Labour wins next election | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

Under the plans, migrants who live permanently and pay taxes in the UK would be able to vote in general elections for the first time.
The move is expected to enfranchise around 3.4 million EU nationals who have "settled status" in Britain
Meanwhile, 1.4 million 16 and 17-year-olds would also be able to go to the ballot box in line with Scotland and Wales.

Keir Starmer to hand vote to EU nationals if Labour wins next election

The Labour leader has been accused of "laying the groundwork for a referendum to rejoin the EU" and looking to "reopen" Brexit.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1769993/keir-starmer-labour-general-election-eu

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
sashagabadon · 15/05/2023 10:11

can British people vote in EU countries general elections if they live in the country, pay taxes etc?
Maybe it could be re-ciprocal... so if France allows UK citizens the vote in France , then vice versa for French citizens

but otherwise then then I do not agree - if EU nationals have lived here many years and they really want to vote then they should become UK citizens or canvas for their country to join the commonwealth!

Schroedingersimmigrant · 15/05/2023 10:12

CharlottenBerg · 15/05/2023 09:46

Unless your country of birth forbids dual citizenship, you don't have to give it up to become a UK citizen, assuming you qualify. You can have dual nationality. What can be hard for many is the cost: naturalisation £1,250, ceremony fee £80,

Show quote history

1330 naturalisation, + english test, +LITUK test, plus if you need solicitor help or check.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 15/05/2023 10:14

16 year olds should be allowed to vote.

SunnyEgg · 15/05/2023 10:19

focuslocus · 15/05/2023 09:36

Why not let everyone in the world vote in UK elections? It would be the kind thing to do.

haha

On another note it’s interesting he’s gone to the trouble of appealing to Brexit voters and now this. Maybe emboldened by local election result. If the plan was to appeal to them this will irritate.

SpringBunnies · 15/05/2023 10:25

The point though is commonwealth citizens can. I am from NZ and I can vote immediately after I arrived here. No settlement status needed.

CharlottenBerg · 15/05/2023 10:26

Schroedingersimmigrant · 15/05/2023 10:12

1330 naturalisation, + english test, +LITUK test, plus if you need solicitor help or check.

Show quote history

Yes, yet more costs! You don't have to take the LITUK test if you are under 18 or over 65, or have certain long-term medical or mental conditions. Citizens of certain countries (mainly Commonweath plus the US) are exempt from the English test, but we don't make it easy, and it is not fair.

feellikeanalien · 15/05/2023 10:26

When I lived, worked , had residence and paid taxes in Portugal I was not allowed to vote in national elections. Local elections I was allowed.

Personally I agree with the no taxation without representation statement but it is not only the UK that does this.

SpringBunnies · 15/05/2023 10:27

Well, I think english exams aren't excempt for all commonwealth citizens but only those from English speaking countries? I definitely didn't do one of those but have done the Life in the UK test.

Gtsr443 · 15/05/2023 10:35

Tories with their history of "electoral reform through boundary changes" and gerrymandering in Westminster have got some fucking cheek squawking about this.

CharlottenBerg · 15/05/2023 10:39

SpringBunnies · 15/05/2023 10:27

Well, I think english exams aren't excempt for all commonwealth citizens but only those from English speaking countries? I definitely didn't do one of those but have done the Life in the UK test.

You will not need to prove your knowledge of English if you’re a citizen of:

Antigua and Barbuda
Australia
The Bahamas
Barbados
Belize
the British overseas territories
Canada
Dominica
Grenada
Guyana
Jamaica
Ireland (for citizenship only)
Malta
New Zealand
St Kitts and Nevis
St Lucia
St Vincent and the Grenadines
Trinidad and Tobago

CharlottenBerg · 15/05/2023 10:45

Quite a few of these countries have sizeable numbers of people who don't speak English, e.g. 12% of Maltese, and the vast majority of the Guyanese population speaks Guyanese Creole as their native tongue.

MRSBoredsome · 15/05/2023 10:54

deuxgarcons · 15/05/2023 09:52

It's not just the UK. My DM lived in Spain with Spanish residency and paid Spanish taxes for 19 years. She could only vote in local elections not the GE.

Well said 👏

I don't think there are that many countries allow foreigners vote in GE. If I wanted to vote in GE in the UK, I would become a British citizen by naturalisation. It's common sense. I don't know why people complain.

My British husband who paid higher tax didn't have any rights to vote when he resided in my country.

sixthvestibule · 15/05/2023 10:54

As someone who has lived, worked, volunteered and paid taxes in the UK for over 20 years, married to a Brit, with British children and no way of becoming a British citizen without giving up my birth nationality, this rule makes me feel like an outsider in my own community. Sad and unjust.

StarlightLady · 15/05/2023 11:00

I think if you work here and pay taxes here you should be entitled to vote here. That seems only fair to me.

sashagabadon · 15/05/2023 11:00

sixthvestibule · 15/05/2023 10:54

As someone who has lived, worked, volunteered and paid taxes in the UK for over 20 years, married to a Brit, with British children and no way of becoming a British citizen without giving up my birth nationality, this rule makes me feel like an outsider in my own community. Sad and unjust.

But that’s the fault of your home nation not the U.K. you should canvas for your home nation to allow duel nationality if that is the case. The U.K. allows it for U.K. citizens so it is not the U.K. stopping it for you.

MRSBoredsome · 15/05/2023 11:03

bellinisurge · 15/05/2023 09:53

No taxation without representation. If they can't vote then let's make them exempt from UK taxation. Let's see how that idea is received , shall we?

You could call for that as long as you don't access public services such as NHS, education and the welfare system.

SunnyEgg · 15/05/2023 11:04

sashagabadon · 15/05/2023 11:00

But that’s the fault of your home nation not the U.K. you should canvas for your home nation to allow duel nationality if that is the case. The U.K. allows it for U.K. citizens so it is not the U.K. stopping it for you.

Show quote history

Yes some allow more than one. U.K. allows it. I chatted to someone with three the other day.

sixthvestibule · 15/05/2023 11:13

@sashagabadon No you’re right. My ‘home nation’ hasn’t been home for decades, but it claims me, just because I was born there. It’s like having to choose between a parent and a spouse. I want to be able to have both.

CharlottenBerg · 15/05/2023 11:14

SunnyEgg · 15/05/2023 11:04

Yes some allow more than one. U.K. allows it. I chatted to someone with three the other day.

Show quote history

I know someone who says she can could get four - she was born in Northern Ireland so can get Irish citizenship, her mother is German, and one of her grandparents was Italian and passed on jure sanguinis.

StillWantingADog · 15/05/2023 11:17

I think anyone who is a permanent resident or citizenship regardless of where they came from should be able to vote

not commonwealth citizens on 3 year visas though

and if emigrated I’d hope to be able to vote wherever I’d gone

if you pay taxes and contribute to society I can’t see the issue.

bur the tories will see this group as people who would never vote for them so it’s hardly surprising they they’re not happy

KnittedCardi · 15/05/2023 11:22

Can anyone find a country that DOES allow general election votes without citizenship?

reluctantbrit · 15/05/2023 11:23

I am German, now also hold a UK passport but only because I was allowed to keep my German nationality. Sorry, but I don't trust this government about immigrants and I also need to safeguard my child and keep the backdoor to our home country open.

We could vote for local elections until Brexit, that was a EU wide rule.

I do understand that there issues with not being allowed to vote for GE if you don't hold a UK passport but it stung that Commonwealth citizens are allowed to do so. It especially stung when Malta was allowed to vote in the Brexit referendrum but no other EU citizen was.

I would love to have the rule that if you achieve settled status and could apply for citizenship if you want, that then you can also vote. It means you have these people who are commited to live here and have settled but for several reasons may not be able to apply for UK citizenship to feel part of the decision making process.

KnittedCardi · 15/05/2023 11:24

KnittedCardi · 15/05/2023 11:22

Can anyone find a country that DOES allow general election votes without citizenship?

Mid Google, so Sweden does, but then you have to choose to only vote in Sweden. You can't then vote in your country of origin.

sashagabadon · 15/05/2023 11:26

sixthvestibule · 15/05/2023 11:13

@sashagabadon No you’re right. My ‘home nation’ hasn’t been home for decades, but it claims me, just because I was born there. It’s like having to choose between a parent and a spouse. I want to be able to have both.

Then it’s your home nation that is forcing you to choose and it’s unfair and incorrect to blame the U.K.
I get your dilemma completely and it’s for you to decide what is more important to you. But blame your home nation for this.

Clavinova · 15/05/2023 11:30

Just looking at Ireland -

British citizens who live in Ireland can vote in:

  • General elections
  • Local elections
Citizens of the EU who live in Ireland can vote in:
  • European elections
  • Local elections
Only Irish citizens can also vote in:
  • Presidential elections
  • Referendums
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/voting/right-to-vote/#l8312d

Keir Starmer was interviewed on LBC this morning - first he started talking about EU citizens who had lived in the UK for 10 years, then 20 years, then 30 years - I'm guessing he really meant 10 years (or lower) and then thought he ought to revise his thinking upwards.