To think the pope has a point??

[HiggleDyPigGeldy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65572153

I was in Italy recently and visited several large towns in the North. More dogs being walked than babies in buggies.

The issue (which is covered in the article) is that there is a lack of childcare and job protection for women who become mothers. Women face being sacked for becoming pregnant, and most of the population does not have access to childcare/ nurseries. Which is leading to many people to either not have children, or have fewer than they would like. Better access to affordable childcare and proper protections for working parents - and truly dealing with employers who treat pregnant and working mums poorly would substantially help this issue. It is not enough to say 'don't have pets' when there is no practical alternative.

Also, having literally just come back from Italy whilst pregnant - please for the love of god install more public bathrooms! There are not remotely enough!

Having grandparents who lived through the Great Depression... I think history would definitely disagree with this nonesense assertion!

@fitzwilliamdarcy at least you're honest. I genuinely don't understand how one can be concerned about overpopulation caused by others but not by themselves. You are part of the problem, so lead by example! 😆

Although I suppose euthanasia does throw up issues because in some cases it won't be voluntary but there isn't really an alternative.

To be honest we will do what we do now and ignore requests for help and support from the elderly until they die. 500 people over 65 die every week whilst waiting for care in England. I’d imagine that number will be higher next year. Politicians will offer meaningless platitudes involving thoughts and prayers.

True but it still needs to be managed as there is too much bed blocking going on because of the collapse of social care.

Also in Italy you have institutional failure - failure to collect tax is a massive problem.

@whumpthereitis I think you are misunderstanding my post

That would work in a world where people remain in their own country, but that isn’t this world, and they don’t. Currently, the UK is losing more high rate tax payers than it is gaining, which amongst other impacts, puts an increased burden on those with less. The UK needs to attract wealth, businesses and investment (more tax payers, jobs, innovation), not discourage it.

I agree we need to be attractive which is why I said I would increase income tax bands & I think salaries should be better.
My policies aren't there to tackle the global elite because you can't. However there is huge intergenerational inequality & far too much tax on income & younger people vs wealth largely due to the distorted property market. Making an older person pay more towards their care is not going to result in a mass exodus of 70 yrs olds fleeing to other countries!

When the only income you have comes from your labour. I want my children to have some passive income so they they don’t have to work in crappy jobs for wealthy people. I want them to accumulate more wealth so that they can pass that on to their children and so on. I’m not interested in private schooling etc. Just financial security because I know what it’s like not to have it.

Same. Not even for overpopulation issues, I just think it’s barbaric that we prolong the lives of humans with no quality when we’d put animals out of their misery. People should be allowed to choose and control the kind of death they want.

As one of my sisters friends said when talking about her decision to move to Australia, why I'm working my butt off as a doctor & struggling to afford a house & paying a lot of tax so that some of the people I treat in hospital can get free treatment & pass on their expensive houses to their dc.

The stalling birth rate combined with medical advances ensuring people live longer - is a global problem. Countries, like Italy, are looking at an aging population with less young people being available to look after them (whether in a family unit or a caring profession). The current trajectories aren't sustainable unless there is a mass redistribution of population where countries with high birth rates are encouraged to emigrate to countries with low ones. (Although within a few generations it would be expected that they could also be influenced by the prevailing trends in their new countries). It becomes a debate about migration, refugees, climate change, etc. Populism has encouraged broad statements concerning all these issues and the solutions will only be found in the nuances. When so many countries are run by corrupt politicians firmly focused on advancing capitalism and lining the pockets of global corporations - nuance isn't high on the agenda.

@ConsuelaHammock how are you going to achieve that then? How are you setting your dc up to have passive income?

I want them to accumulate more wealth so that they can pass that on to their children and so on

I want my dc to live in a more equal society because I want the schools they go to to be good. I want the hospital infrastructure to be there in case they are ill or in an accident. I want police there to protect them should they be a victim of crime. A more equal society is a better one for all as most of us can't live in ivory towers. I'm just very grateful my parents were immigrants because my dc will be able to move around much more easily. I think that's the best option now!

Also it's much harder to accumulate wealth now particularly if it's not coming from your parents.

The same way we do now. We’re never going to be mega wealthy but we won’t have any money worries. I want the same for them.

This is very well observed.

Women have way too much of the burden and not enough of the spolis in our current system.

Leaders need to address the issues of male participation rather than (preceived) female lack of participation.

Leaders need to address the issues of male participation rather than (preceived) female lack of participation.

I agree but there are far, far more women who really want kids than men who really do. A lot of men who aren’t participating are like that because they went along with what their wives wanted. The answer of those men to being addressed like this is likely to be “OK, not having them then”.

This doesn’t solve the issue of falling birthrates.

I think there needs to be a greater appreciation of the fact that more and more people simply don’t care about having or want to have kids, and there needs to be a societal back up plan.

The same way we do now. We’re never going to be mega wealthy but we won’t have any money worries. I want the same for them.

well that's a bit vague! 😆

I agree. Inherited wealth is why the rich stay rich . It’s getting more and more difficult to become self made . That’s why it’s important to be able to pass it on and keep it in the family.

Property, agricultural
land, wind energy , stocks and shares , bonds, isas. Is that better ?

I mean people repeat this but polls suggest men want children more, they don't have the socialization to care for them though... https://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/03/20/of-course-men-want-children-more-than-women-do/

Same with the myth that all single women are miserable. This is what men want us to believe. Not saying that there are not many women who desperately want kids - there are, or that there are not single women who desperately want to be married - there are. But the facts are that married men live longer and when polled state they want kids.

And the reason I call out the above is that there are some men who do try to trap a woman with children. They know once pregnant or with a child/multiple children it is harder for her to leave him. By perpetuating the narrative that children are something the woman always wanted anyway, it is so easy to ignore this form of control that some men exert.

@hamsterchump

If you've got buyer's remorse….

This made me 😂

I agree. Inherited wealth is why the rich stay rich . It’s getting more and more difficult to become self made . That’s why it’s important to be able to pass it on and keep it in the family.

That's my point, it's ridiculous & I'm not sure how long it will be tolerated particularly where there is a shrinking income tax base.

This is the same Pope who refuses to condemn Russia/Putin and its totally illegal and brutal invasion of Ukraine, the guy is a cnut, he can take his opinions and shove em up his arse.

I think ordinary people should be able to leave some inheritance to their children . I’m not talking billionaires’ wealth. What’s the point in being sensible if you can’t pass it on? What’s the point of working hard if you’re no better off than those who don’t want more for their families.

Can't understand why you assume people are choosing not to have children because of a childcare system in Italy...

I for one will never have children out of complete choice, I have no desire to ever have them. Partner and I would prefer to travel, experience nice things and not fritter away our hard earned money on raising kids. It's just a choice, that so many find impossible to accept. 'oh you'll change your mind' 🙄

The worst thing anyone can do from an environmental point of view is have children, the planet is vastly over crowded as it is, population is predicted to decline anyway which is what is needed in my opinion.

Not sure also why folk feel the need to have children so there is someone to look after them when they're old, it's so selfish.

I think the pope should stick to what he knows best, covering up one of the biggest paedophile rings ever to grace the earth.