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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

unbelievably selfish and cruel advice

653 replies

crochetmonkey74 · 11/05/2023 14:59

Colleague at work (lovely and really well liked) has had a terrible time recently and lost both her parents within 4 weeks of each other. She is in an awful state As you can imagine, people have flocked round to help and offer real life support in practical ways.
Another colleague has suggested she takes more care when talking to colleagues and getting upset and has said she should say " I'm really upset right now and I was wondering if you had the capacity to talk about it" before she speaks to anyone in case they find it triggering or so it gives them the opportunity to say "hey i'm feeling a little overwhelmed with work right now but I can talk next Wednesday.."
For context, bereaved colleague is in her late 40's - knobhead colleague is 24.
The people bereaved colleague is talking to are friends as well as working together. ALso, bereaved colleague is behaving in an appropriate way- not putting on anyone or taking advantage
I am honestly staggered by this - are there a new generation of people who really, even in these most extreme of situations put themselves first? What will it be like if people have such strong boundaries that they never help anyone else? I have been in a terrible situation before and the idea of someone saying they could fit me in in a weeks time would have seemed impossible. With grief, you are often going hour to hour especially in the first few months.
What do you guys think of it?

OP posts:
Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 10:50

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 09:16

You're not the only one I make it habit not to talk my business to anyone. If the 24 year old wanted to share her business she would. Too many nosey buggers out there who think they are helping but they're not.

Why is your preference to how you personally deal with stuff relevant to the question the OP put which is whether the words I just quoted two posts ago are an appropriate thing to think and want to say to someone grieving for the loss of both parents in 4 weeks.

People's stuff they go through is not unique in most cases but how people deal with it is up to the individual, the 24 year old is trying to tell the colleague how to deal with the grief and that is the bit that is wrong.

Teder · 13/05/2023 11:13

Is it really that unusual for some 24 year olds to have experienced trauma and grief? Is it that hard to imagine this 24 year old maybe has actually been through exceptional grief and pain?

I am absolutely not criticising the bereaved colleague in this scenario but some people on here and making very bold assumptions. Being older doesn’t mean you understand grief. Many people have both parents alive and well into middle aged adulthood!

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 11:25

Teder · 13/05/2023 11:13

Is it really that unusual for some 24 year olds to have experienced trauma and grief? Is it that hard to imagine this 24 year old maybe has actually been through exceptional grief and pain?

I am absolutely not criticising the bereaved colleague in this scenario but some people on here and making very bold assumptions. Being older doesn’t mean you understand grief. Many people have both parents alive and well into middle aged adulthood!

Of course 24 year olds experience grief, that people experience stuff in life is not unique though, you are not special in that regard and it therefore doesn't entitle you to tell people that are grieving at that point how to do it!

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 11:31

My DH's Dad died when he was 20 but there is no way in hell he would feel entitled to tell his colleague at work how to be upset over his wife being very ill. It wouldn't even cross his mind to talk of boundaries as he knows it isn't all about him at that point in time and he knows that his colleague is going through shit like he did when he was 20.

Teder · 13/05/2023 11:40

It’s impossible to really understand if the 24 year old is over stepping or if actually she is genuinely distressed by what’s going on in the work place.

Terzani · 13/05/2023 11:50

Is it that hard to imagine this 24 year old maybe has actually been through exceptional grief and pain?

Now it's really getting ridiculous. Experiencing ”exceptional grief and trauma” makes you more humane and compassionate, not less. And more inclined to focus on the bereaved person's emotions and needs in such a work setting. The callous and clinical way she talked to the bereaved one is the best proof that the younger one is lacking any experience of grief and trauma.

Sandra1984 · 13/05/2023 12:10

Teder · 13/05/2023 11:40

It’s impossible to really understand if the 24 year old is over stepping or if actually she is genuinely distressed by what’s going on in the work place.

Really distressed yes, because how “inconvenient” that someone lost her parents and now she has to “put up” with their grief. Such a drag. I hate when things are not about me.

Narcissistic behaviour at its best.

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 12:14

People's emotional state at work effects everyone.

Neither 'side' is wrong here.

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 13:04

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 12:14

People's emotional state at work effects everyone.

Neither 'side' is wrong here.

There is one partie that is categorically in the wrong here - the 24 year old !

You can be impacted by someone's emotional struggles but it doesn't give you licence to voice those every thoughts, it is not about the 24 year old and they are not 'special' with unique human experiences, people in the workplace will have gone through an array of crap life experiences but won't be making it about them.

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 13:08

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 13:04

There is one partie that is categorically in the wrong here - the 24 year old !

You can be impacted by someone's emotional struggles but it doesn't give you licence to voice those every thoughts, it is not about the 24 year old and they are not 'special' with unique human experiences, people in the workplace will have gone through an array of crap life experiences but won't be making it about them.

If it's effecting the workplace everyone in the workplace is entitled to an opinion.

OP has said the sadly bereaved colleague has people coming in to check on her and she's having a weep.

Totally understandable. But that's effecting everybody in the office/team.

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 13:16

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 13:08

If it's effecting the workplace everyone in the workplace is entitled to an opinion.

OP has said the sadly bereaved colleague has people coming in to check on her and she's having a weep.

Totally understandable. But that's effecting everybody in the office/team.

No everyone is not 'entitled' that is the issue at hand, the 24 year old believes they have a say in instructing the grieving colleague on how to grieve, why do they believe they can make that statement, what because they have their 'boundaries'to enforce, if you have any self awareness you would understand how wholly inappropriate that is.

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 13:45

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 13:16

No everyone is not 'entitled' that is the issue at hand, the 24 year old believes they have a say in instructing the grieving colleague on how to grieve, why do they believe they can make that statement, what because they have their 'boundaries'to enforce, if you have any self awareness you would understand how wholly inappropriate that is.

Because they work there and there's a stream of people going to the bereaved colleagues office to support her while she weeps.

Who then very likely talk in the break room about their poor colleague who is bereaved and struggling?

So it's a major part of anyone's day who works there even if they're not one of the ones supporting the colleague?

And maybe spending every day in that environment is really distressing?

The OP says it's an NHS workplace so already stressful and likely distressing and then having to go in every day with the usual stressors but also have a weepy, bereaved colleague being constantly checked on will bring anyone down.

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 14:06

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 10:50

Why is your preference to how you personally deal with stuff relevant to the question the OP put which is whether the words I just quoted two posts ago are an appropriate thing to think and want to say to someone grieving for the loss of both parents in 4 weeks.

People's stuff they go through is not unique in most cases but how people deal with it is up to the individual, the 24 year old is trying to tell the colleague how to deal with the grief and that is the bit that is wrong.

Hello Ms Johnny come lately been here long have you read the thread or are you randomly posting at the end of the discussion?

I covered all of that darling just answering another random that's all. I do agree the 24 year old was a knob head but I guess you missed that as well. I did post that people should be called out for what they are.

What is your input now Johnny?

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 14:14

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 13:45

Because they work there and there's a stream of people going to the bereaved colleagues office to support her while she weeps.

Who then very likely talk in the break room about their poor colleague who is bereaved and struggling?

So it's a major part of anyone's day who works there even if they're not one of the ones supporting the colleague?

And maybe spending every day in that environment is really distressing?

The OP says it's an NHS workplace so already stressful and likely distressing and then having to go in every day with the usual stressors but also have a weepy, bereaved colleague being constantly checked on will bring anyone down.

She didn't say she works in NHS she said office not NHS.

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 14:25

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 14:06

Hello Ms Johnny come lately been here long have you read the thread or are you randomly posting at the end of the discussion?

I covered all of that darling just answering another random that's all. I do agree the 24 year old was a knob head but I guess you missed that as well. I did post that people should be called out for what they are.

What is your input now Johnny?

calm down, over invested just a bit but FYi I have been on MN for 17 years, how about you.

I'll say and add to a thread whenever I like, another person who thinks they are 'special'.

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 14:27

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 14:14

She didn't say she works in NHS she said office not NHS.

Okay. So people in the office are less stressed than working in the NHS.

But still likely to be effected by the bereaved colleague and the troop of people going into her office to support her while she weeps.

It effects the working environment.

Would you be thrilled to go into work every day surrounded by grief, tears and talk of bereavement?

LolaSmiles · 13/05/2023 14:27

But expecting to control your environment and context so that you are never bothered by others misfortune or negative experiences, is echoing the mantra of the permanently positive, boundary setting brigade, hence the references to the self help guides!
Have many people actually said anything about being permanently positive though?
Even people who understand there's likely reasons why the colleague might feel that's way seem to (on the whole, and me included) think they've gone about it the wrong way and have overstepped.

There's no need for anyone to be permanently positive. There's no need to hide grief.

It is entirely possible though that this situation is affecting the work environment though, not because there's a bereaved colleague, but because there's a friendship group whose behaviour and emotional investment is being brought into the workplace.

Take age out of it, if Person A who has nothing to do with Person B, they don't work together closely, Person B is in their office and is experiencing some personal issues, there's been an announcement of B's issues in team meeting so people are aware.

If A is doing their job and has nothing to do with B, they aren't coming into contact with B, and B is doing their best in a difficult situation and not offloading around the workplace, then A is not going to be aware of what is going on, or the regular crying or anything because they don't come into contact with each other, and any support B has is very private so nobody else is aware. A wouldn't know anything to make any comment (however misjudged a comment might be).

The fact that A knows so much AND has ended up in a position where they feel it's affecting the workplace doesn't mean B has been unreasonable or that B should hide their personal situation. It does suggest that B's friends are not being as private as they think they are and it does suggest that the friends and their focus on B's situation is affecting the workplace.

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 14:30

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 14:25

calm down, over invested just a bit but FYi I have been on MN for 17 years, how about you.

I'll say and add to a thread whenever I like, another person who thinks they are 'special'.

20 what's your point?

Liven up don't get upset over what a stranger says on the internet. Especially with spending 17 years on here.

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 14:31

LolaSmiles · 13/05/2023 14:27

But expecting to control your environment and context so that you are never bothered by others misfortune or negative experiences, is echoing the mantra of the permanently positive, boundary setting brigade, hence the references to the self help guides!
Have many people actually said anything about being permanently positive though?
Even people who understand there's likely reasons why the colleague might feel that's way seem to (on the whole, and me included) think they've gone about it the wrong way and have overstepped.

There's no need for anyone to be permanently positive. There's no need to hide grief.

It is entirely possible though that this situation is affecting the work environment though, not because there's a bereaved colleague, but because there's a friendship group whose behaviour and emotional investment is being brought into the workplace.

Take age out of it, if Person A who has nothing to do with Person B, they don't work together closely, Person B is in their office and is experiencing some personal issues, there's been an announcement of B's issues in team meeting so people are aware.

If A is doing their job and has nothing to do with B, they aren't coming into contact with B, and B is doing their best in a difficult situation and not offloading around the workplace, then A is not going to be aware of what is going on, or the regular crying or anything because they don't come into contact with each other, and any support B has is very private so nobody else is aware. A wouldn't know anything to make any comment (however misjudged a comment might be).

The fact that A knows so much AND has ended up in a position where they feel it's affecting the workplace doesn't mean B has been unreasonable or that B should hide their personal situation. It does suggest that B's friends are not being as private as they think they are and it does suggest that the friends and their focus on B's situation is affecting the workplace.

Sorry but that is just waffle and trying to put a spin on crappy, narcissistic comments.

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 14:38

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 14:30

20 what's your point?

Liven up don't get upset over what a stranger says on the internet. Especially with spending 17 years on here.

Yeah right, I'm sure you've name changed a lot then as the name rings no bells!

Maybe think on as to why you have such an overreaction to breaking your little Mumsnet code only known by 'me, myself and I' on what point on the thread posters can post- over invested much, chill the f out!

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 14:38

LolaSmiles · 13/05/2023 14:27

But expecting to control your environment and context so that you are never bothered by others misfortune or negative experiences, is echoing the mantra of the permanently positive, boundary setting brigade, hence the references to the self help guides!
Have many people actually said anything about being permanently positive though?
Even people who understand there's likely reasons why the colleague might feel that's way seem to (on the whole, and me included) think they've gone about it the wrong way and have overstepped.

There's no need for anyone to be permanently positive. There's no need to hide grief.

It is entirely possible though that this situation is affecting the work environment though, not because there's a bereaved colleague, but because there's a friendship group whose behaviour and emotional investment is being brought into the workplace.

Take age out of it, if Person A who has nothing to do with Person B, they don't work together closely, Person B is in their office and is experiencing some personal issues, there's been an announcement of B's issues in team meeting so people are aware.

If A is doing their job and has nothing to do with B, they aren't coming into contact with B, and B is doing their best in a difficult situation and not offloading around the workplace, then A is not going to be aware of what is going on, or the regular crying or anything because they don't come into contact with each other, and any support B has is very private so nobody else is aware. A wouldn't know anything to make any comment (however misjudged a comment might be).

The fact that A knows so much AND has ended up in a position where they feel it's affecting the workplace doesn't mean B has been unreasonable or that B should hide their personal situation. It does suggest that B's friends are not being as private as they think they are and it does suggest that the friends and their focus on B's situation is affecting the workplace.

100%.

OP started out saying the colleague is in 'an awful state' and people 'rallying round' and when called out for perhaps being mean about the junior colleague said the colleague wasn't effecting anyone and just weeping during breaks to well meaning friends who popped by.

Which really isn't how bereavement works. Friend/colleagues will be popping by and colleague weeping and appreciating the support but that's effecting everyone else in the vicinity or the team and is in no way just happening during breaks.

Because the bereaved colleague and her friend/colleagues are not shaking it off when they go back to work, they're still upset.

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 14:53

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 14:38

Yeah right, I'm sure you've name changed a lot then as the name rings no bells!

Maybe think on as to why you have such an overreaction to breaking your little Mumsnet code only known by 'me, myself and I' on what point on the thread posters can post- over invested much, chill the f out!

Act your age not show size i bet you're a grandmother.

LolaSmiles · 13/05/2023 15:04

Sorry but that is just waffle and trying to put a spin on crappy, narcissistic comments
It really isn't.

It's a funny old world where saying someone has overstepped and misjudged something, whilst also acknowledging they might have grounds to feel their workplace is off is apparently putting a spin on narcissistic comments.

Obviously there's no possible way anything involving an existing group of friends in a workplace could ever affect any other colleagues in the workplace, and when everything is super duper private and never at all crosses into the workplace, someone at total random would feel uncomfortable with a situation... A situation that beyond a team meeting announcement they know nothing about and aren't aware of and aren't party to in any way, in fact they know so little and it's had so little to do with them that the people involved have absolutely no idea at all how the colleague might have come to those feelings.

I don't know about you, but there's probably lots in my workplace I don't know about because it's private.
There are things I am aware of, and that's usually because they're not private.
🤷‍♀️

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 15:09

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 14:53

Act your age not show size i bet you're a grandmother.

😂says the person who has been on Mumsnet for 20 years (apparently)

Humanbiology · 13/05/2023 15:12

Goldenbear · 13/05/2023 15:09

😂says the person who has been on Mumsnet for 20 years (apparently)

I had my first child at 20 I started young. You have a good laugh at least I brought a smile to your face.

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