To think that allowing young children to "play out" is a safeguarding concern?

[LongTimeLurker234]

Was just wondering how people feel about children between the ages of say, 6/7/8/9 "playing out" unsupervised by adults for hours, and without a phone. Going to the local parks, shops etc... Are there any laws about it?

I'm posting this because I'm actually concerned for some children, not just because of this issue alone but this is part of it.

YABU- playing out is normal
YANBU - safeguarding concern

Of course a 12 year old can walk by themselves- do you think a 5yr old should?

No🤣I said 8-12 years!

Of course a 12 year old can walk by themselves- do you think a 5yr old should? Good luck asking the school teacher to allow them to walk off after the school bell alone

Where I live it's not uncommon for children to walk to school from age 5 and certainly the majority do by age 8/9.

My two got the bus due to distance but would have walked if we'd been closer.

20 years ago DS played out from about 9 or 10, 60 years ago I played out from about 5 or 6, these seemed to be fairly typical ages of the time for doing this. I don't know what the typical age is now.

Not read every single comment, but it seems a lot of people think it's ok for kids to be out playing on their own from around 8/9yrs (assuming it is a safe area generally), whereas I seem to remember a previous thread about when it was acceptable to leave kids home alone, the opinion seemed to be definitely not before secondary school age at the earliest? Lots of comments about how parents would be legally responsible if DC came to any harm for whatever reason at home on own. But doesn't seem to be the same view about parents being legally responsible if DC come to harm playing out alone. Do we have a greater appetite for risk out of the home than in it? if so what is the reason for this? Maybe because it's in kids' long term interests to play out because of health benefits, and learning to gain independence, but they don't benefit from being on their own at home? Just interested and wondering.....
(Btw I'm in favour of children playing out In suitable surroundings!)

I'm currently working my 9 year old up to more independence. He is currently happy to walk our dog or scoot round the block, and post a letter over and then down the street. Next aim is to get him to go to the nearby corner shop, as I see many other kids around his age alone there. He usually has his Nokia dumb phone with him.

It's all very well saying "wait until they're in secondary as that's when they walk to school", but my DS's journey to school would be quite the walk to be your first one unaccompanied and relying on your own street smarts! Do people really just go from accompanying their kids everywhere to turfing them out the front door 5 days a week? Seems poor!

Left alone at home is different to playing out with friends

Firstly parent is assumed to be at home - easily reached

And secondly you are in group of friends

There is a limit in my mine so the smaller children should be within a very short distance of home

They aren't allowed by schools to walk home alone until year 6 here. I think sensible myself, given the area.

Children are allowed to walk to and from school at Junior School age here, so from age 7.

You must live in a very safe area. Here we have bail hostels and county lines.

Very common in Germany and not because crime is unknown there.

Yes it sounds like my world is far removed from your world, hence why it’s ridiculous for anyone to advocate for a “law” to prevent children playing out.

YANBU, I wouldn’t do it. Kids can be flashed at, run over, abducted or bullied just by the other children. Then there’s the grooming risk etc. No way.

Also (and far more likely) the children might cause trouble to neighbours or make a nuisance of themselves, and who are you supposed to report them to if parents are nowhere to be seen?

It can be neglectful too. If you’re concerned about a child, OP, do report to the authorities.

Children are allowed to walk to and from school at Junior School age here, so from age 7

When I was a child, way back in the stone age, there was always a stream of children walking to and from Primary school and there is safety in numbers.

We live in another country but my dd feels that she cannot let my dgd go out on her own because she would stand out as the only unaccompanied child in the neighbourhood and so be much more vulnerable

It sounds fine to me and more children should be out playing with friends and siblings IMO. I would be more concerned for the ones wrapped in cotton wool playing Xbox while Mummy caters to their every wish 🙄

It's context dependent. In my safe area, children are out unaccompanied from about age 9 10 ish. But I am sure their parents are probably aware of where they are and it wouldn't be all day - often dropped at the park for an hour or walk to park with a couple of friends type thing.

Definitely never seen a child of 5 or 6 out alone here.

Used to live in a rough part of Liverpool - there you would often see younger kids out alone, often up to no good, throwing stones at cars etc. But the middle class (non scally) types wouldn't let their kids out at any age (maybe walk to secondary school at age 14 ish but certainly no playing out).

When I was young I used to be out for hours with no supervision from about 8. We were in a rural area though. I would rarely see anyone while out.

So I guess it's part of the picture to consider rather than the whole. If you're in an urban area it would be more unusual I guess

Statistically it's traffic that is a much greater concern than predators. We all pretend they can't play out due to flashers but really it's much more boring...kids in groups are pretty safe against predators but not any safer against getting run over . Sad times where personal car use is more important than children's safety and health

From experience, I think you're a bit off the mark.

I mean I work with young people who've been victims of sa. Needles in bushes aren't the issue. It's the creeps who live in nice houses and who are polite to their neighbours. We used to play out with a family next to us. Later came out that the dad was highly abusive to the mum and the kids and was into necrophilia in his workplace. Was very glad that we weren't allowed into their house and their kids always came to our garden. You've no idea who lives around you and that is the sad and scary reality.

It's a normal part of growing up and developing independent skills in my book.

I find it interesting how much the perception of what is "clearly" right or wrong is in fact strongly contextual/cultural. E.g. many Germans reading this thread would find it extremely over-protective not to allow a 6- or 7-yo to walk to school, or not to allow an 8-yo to take a bus to the shops or something. Of course, this also depends on the type of neighbourhood, but I had a house key, a small allowance, and a curfew from the time I started school, and certainly by 7-yo I was allowed to bike to the municipal swimming pool by myself, or bike to see if various friends were available to come out and play. By age 9, we lived in a big city, and I took the bus with several transfers by myself to go to music lessons or to go Christmas shopping. From friends and relatives, it sounds as though these things haven't changed nearly as much yet as they have in English-speaking countries. I lecture at university, and have to say I do see a big difference in the level of independence and confidence shown by students from a continental rather than British background. While lecturing in the UK, I found it worrying how many of the local students seemed to lack confidence in doing even fairly trivial life admin tasks, and also how they seemed to be quite helpless in terms of taking some initiative to figure out how to do unfamiliar things.

So how would this man have been a danger to the kids playing out exactly? Sounds like he wasn't.

Playing out, rather than at his house - could have protected you from him, though in any case he might have only "struck" after being able to groom you into silence over many visits or not gone for you in any case as he already had victims terrified into silence.

Same in Finland, its just normal for 7 year olds to walk to school by themselves or ride bikes with friends, its the expected thing so the child protection charity sends out pamphlets to families with children (at least I got one when DD was starting school) about to start school telling them how to practice safely getting to school and back, and how to manage being at home alone. I'm more protective than most because I am not comfortable with my children swimming in the lake without adult supervision but its very normal to see gangs of children 8 and up swimming in the lake without parents (sometimes doing dangerous things, which is why I don't like it, deep water without lifeguards is my limit!), I just don't let mine but she's still happy to swim with me anyway.

Agree completely. If you don’t allow any freedom they will never have freedom.

my kids are allowed to take certain risks, given a chance to fail. I’m supervising even from a distance, so for example my kids travel an hour to school and back every day as it’s the closest one.

Daughter wanted to go to the same town by bus to meet her friends. I allowed it, but I dropped her at the bust stop, drove into the town eland really was only a street or two away for the first few times.

I knew she was safe. I also knew when she was breaking my rules that I’d set for her. But if I hadn’t given her a chance to mess up and ignore my rules, I’d never have known if she was reliable or not, and once she was travelling for school how would I have known she could behave and make good decisions?

I honestly do wonder at how hard it is for kids. Don’t spend all day playing games, don’t go out, have no real independence or decision making experience. They will be ripe for the picking when they eventually leave home

Sad times where personal car use is more important than children's safety and health

I agree with this sentiment, but personally I never had any problem teaching my dd not to cross a road or step off the pavement without an adult.

In fact one day I found her and her five-year-old friends all furious with the man in the ice-cream van because he had chosen to park on the other side of the road.

Some mothers still smoke, take drugs and drink these days, so your point is?