To worry about the right wing?

[Swingstotheleftslidetotheright]

I'm politically homeless at the moment in terms of who to vote for but morally I sit firmly centre/centre left. I'm very British with that it would seem.

I've seen over the last few years a very hard push left across social media and among the "chattering" classes which has seemingly come with a desire to shut down discussion, debate and conversation if it involves even the mildest of challenge to their way of thinking. What seems to be happening as a result of this shutting down and refusal to engage in a debate is a rise in harder line opposition, whereas before the two sides would have a somewhat heated and healthy discourse about an issue and come away mindful of each others views and with a solution in sight.

I'm noticing the louder the left shout the harder the, previously moderate, right push back and vice versa. Both sides appear to be getting more vocal and more extreme. I'm seeing this a lot around migration, feminism, the economy and crime. I'm now worried that this continued closure of conversation is going to lead us down a path of extremism - from one or both sides - and lead us to a dramatic and unwelcome rise from the far right.

Are we at a point of no return? Can we ever go back to being moderate and tolerant?

Yes you see it a lot on here

I notice it more from those on 'right wing, usually with a request along the lines of Dont engage with me or pls leave the thread, along with attempts at belittling.

Wonder what they are afraid off? maybe its that 20% deficit in the 'polls?

Ha at that post. Some get a little fixated…

Over a really long time.

CBT sounds good.

Brilliant! attempts at belittling..... you ve proved my point! maybe its an Australian thing? i'll ask my DD.

Have I?

You know you’ve been doing this since the pandemic. I mean it’s a little invested given how long that is wouldn’t you say.

I think it’s now bigger in your head than it needs to be. I don’t quote you and beyond this direct hassling I don’t read your posts.

It’s really not that important. I actually do mean rerouting auto responses. Surely time is better spent elsewhere.

Have you been stalking the PP since the pandemic? Do you not think that's creepy and weird, even for you @SunnyEgg?

Not at all. The opposite obviously hence the request to not engage. Which they are finding hard to hear given the post directly after mine.

That kind of hassling over that length of time suggests a need for rethink.

It’s not good, I don’t know how to be clearer.

Honestly it’s just posts on a forum. You’ll see views you don’t agree with.

There’s no need to get that fixated.

As I’ve said beyond that direct hassling I have zero interest in those posts.

There are other posters I find more interesting of course, I engage with them.

Tbh I think it has sunk in that there is going to be a Labour government and many posters do not like it. And the gap is so big in the polls that you really have to wonder who is now prepared to give their support to the Conservatives. Once they lose, I think you will see a hard right libertarian party emerge. Sure it will be popular with hard right people but they have never been a majority in the U.K. in the same way as the hard left have not.

If there’s a Labour gov so be it. Hopefully it’ll be as you all believe.

On economics I’m not seeing it. Hence the different views.

I wish people didn't use the words 'right wing', 'left wing' or 'woke'. What does it mean exactly? Probably something slightly different for each person, so it would be more helpful to describe exactly what you mean when using those words by giving examples, being more specific, and less divisive by using such terms. If the actual specific concerns are described then they can be more easily understood and discussed by all.

Economically we are so screwed it's frightening. Our gdp to debt ratio is 100.5 percent.

That is total economic incompetence

I can’t say I was for that spending in the pandemic, that didn’t go down well either, the campaign to make people want more spending / damage was very effective

Public demand was very high overall, and for energy support still going now

I can’t see Labour fulfilling promises so it’s not really a factor

I think it would be better for the UK if we did get more clear eyed about our problems. Public services are screwed because of our debt/gdp problem and we need growth and spending on infrastructure to do it.

We have done the tax cut and release model to death. Truss was the last highly incompetent gasp where she would borrow to do it. Awful. The fact she won a leadership contest in the Conservatives tells you that there is something destructive in them.

If there’s a Labour gov so be it. Hopefully it’ll be as you all believe.

Sadly I think it would be exactly as I believe, some of us have very long memories, back into the 60s and 70s, that the majority on here lack.

I agree it’s becoming increasingly tribal. The idea that you can have a variety of opinions and not be left or right wing is lost.

Good manners and a sense of humour seem to be on their way out even though both are excellent ways of humanising debate.

I don't think people should vote Labour on a fantasy. The UK has effectively run out of money.

Sunak (who is in part responsible for this mess) is holding the line. No more spending. But truthfully unless Labour are going to raise tax I do not see they can do much more. Income tax has already gone up on ordinary people significantly by the freezing of bands. The very top rates being paid are now a strong discentive to working harder and only the top rate payers are contributing.

The country is in a crisis. It is serious. Is it possible that a Labour government can come in and do two vital things, one, looking at public spending and decide cuts? I am serious on that one btw! And then two, it looks to address tax away from income.

Both of these things seem to me to be certain.

The UK has to pay for COVID. The rate of spending was unparalleled.

There’s really not much in it economically, Labour has a couple of token policies which appeal but will do very little, and imo damage a successful U.K. sector

There won’t be the same funding as last Labour gov, everything that the public demanded during Covid and after cost too much and PPP is out.

That leaves other issues on which to base the decision, people will have their own views. Up to them, post away, we all can.

I remember the 70s. And the 80s, 90s, 00s. I remember the UK before this Tory government wrecked it with Austerity, Brexit, crazy Covid spending and Trussterfuck economics.

You can hardly blame the electorate for wanting rid of them.

My take is that woke issues are going to diminish in importance. I don't actually think they really grip people day to day.

However, they do agitate people. Politics for clicks. It makes them angry. Good for a certain sort of politician. Good for an extreme one, right or left.

And it allows both sides to suggest declaratory or pointless laws to address these "issues".

I have a great suspicion of those who work up these "issues". It stops us all, because we are one country, from looking at the economic mess we are in, and trying to address it. Ideology wars are cheap. But they are nasty and very damaging to the UK

New legislation for women rather than against would be great.

Badly thought out legislation is the cause of the issues. The hideous GRA for a start.

Loads of people get annoyed by stuff some claim is irrelevant or ‘woke’.
Corbyn and antisemitism
Sturgeon and Isla Bryson
Brexit winning on immigration pretty much
Ed Miliband and..

Politicians can get hurt for a variety of reasons, hence back peddling from Labour - although just more of same repackaged

But if we look at Corbyn, he lost. Democracy works. Ed Miliband lost.

Problems within a political party are not necessarily the UK's problem. Likewise Brexit. That was a particularly Conservative issue that became a national issue because of a decision to hold a referendum to resolve an internal party problem.

Economics, public services, corruption, infrastructure. These are so much more important. The march of ideology rather than pragmatic politics is something that we need to see for what it is, imo, vastly less important.

Do you not remember last time we had a Labour government and how things like schools, education, healthcare, social care, housing, policing, courts, prisons, infrastructure, business investment and all manner of other aspects just worked better?

I also can look at global context, funding via PPP and high risk exposure boom pre bust.

None of which we will have next.

Look at the funding difference not the words

@SunnyEgg so what do you see as the alternative? Agreed, Labour won't have a lot of financial wiggle room. But neither do the Tories, and they have a 13 year record of supervised decline. Saying that Labour are always worse on the economy is just the perpetuation of a myth.

I feel like I did in 2010 - time to give the other side a chance to fuck it up.