To worry about the right wing?

[Swingstotheleftslidetotheright]

I'm politically homeless at the moment in terms of who to vote for but morally I sit firmly centre/centre left. I'm very British with that it would seem.

I've seen over the last few years a very hard push left across social media and among the "chattering" classes which has seemingly come with a desire to shut down discussion, debate and conversation if it involves even the mildest of challenge to their way of thinking. What seems to be happening as a result of this shutting down and refusal to engage in a debate is a rise in harder line opposition, whereas before the two sides would have a somewhat heated and healthy discourse about an issue and come away mindful of each others views and with a solution in sight.

I'm noticing the louder the left shout the harder the, previously moderate, right push back and vice versa. Both sides appear to be getting more vocal and more extreme. I'm seeing this a lot around migration, feminism, the economy and crime. I'm now worried that this continued closure of conversation is going to lead us down a path of extremism - from one or both sides - and lead us to a dramatic and unwelcome rise from the far right.

Are we at a point of no return? Can we ever go back to being moderate and tolerant?

Who are you angry with? The electorate for not voting Corbyn last time or your party / opposition for not choosing a different leader?

@SunnyEgg Why would those be the only two things I could be angry about when there has been so much more coming from the right, largely impacting the disabled, the poor and those from minority groups (God forbid you’re all three!)

Hmm. Nobody says 'lefty scum'. But Tory Scum is well understood across the board. Why do you think that is?

I’m wondering which of the two you blame more for the defeat?

Because it’s said by intolerant, aggressive people on mn and in Labour, oddly showing paucity of argument

I think you're ascribing far too much influence to MN but if they've added to the general lexicon that's quite an achievement.

Intolerant, aggressive people with low ability to form an argument use it anywhere then.

No difference to me

The intolerant, aggressive elements of the Left are not "in Labour". They despise Labour, especially the leader.

@SunnyEgg I have to say, you have completely lost me with this line of questioning.

People on the thread described those on the left as being “nasty”.

I said it’s because they have more to be angry about than those on the right, considering they’re typically the ones whose lives have been reduced to dwindling piles of shit under the current government.

Your response is to ask me whether I prefer Corbyn or Starmer? That’s giving off a whiff of “agenda” if you ask me.

FWIW, I’m “politically homeless” as they call it. I see my current options as far right, right, or “wasted vote on a party that, let’s be honest, doesn’t say or do very much.

Obviously there’s Rayner on ‘Tory scum’

Bizarrely very much at top of the party

Because it's a gross misrepresentation. Just because you haven't heard anyone saying lefty scum doesn't mean they don't.

And it's not just "leftys" they hold in contempt

A Conservative byelection candidate has defended sharing a Facebook post telling jobless parents who cannot feed their children to “fuck off” if they still pay a £30 phone bill.

and they spout plenty of nonsense - here's some from one who later quit and has been replaced by a Labour MP who actually wants the job -

Left wing snowflakes are killing comedy, tearing down historic statues, removing books from universities, dumbing down panto, removing Christ from Christmas and suppressing free speech. Sadly, it must be true, history does repeat itself. It will be music next.

Drinkingmywater

I think the left may come across as “unpleasant” to some of you because they have more reason to be angry right now.

Yes, I get that there's a correlation between being angry about the status quo and espousing left-wing politics. But that anger should manifest itself in an intellectual way, and not result in being an ae to others! I stand by me personal experience - which has been very clear-cut in this area.

As a PP said, I'm probably scarred through a career in education and the cultural sector, areas traditionally dominated by left-wing politics. I don't think their influence in these areas has always been for the best either.

I’m not asking you if you prefer Corbyn or Starmer but if you are angry who you blame for losses

Sorry for typos...my personal experience, not 'me'!

And ae was arsehole when I typed it. I think my keyboard is censoring me!

@SunnyEgg I blame the British public for voting them in. But that’s democracy for you.

Ok so last time, you would have been happier with Corbyn

Taking the 'Tory scum' phrase out of this, why is it bizarre she's at the top of the party?

Ah. Lefty Snowflake. Cutting. I fear intellectual paucity may not all be on one side. 'Tory Scum' is useful shorthand to sum up the several pages of description that should be attached each time the Smash and Grab party is mentioned. Saves time and everyone understands it and just what it means.

@CoffeeCantata I understand the point you’re making, but we can’t really expect people whose lives are being destroyed to remain calm and pleasant in the face of those who are essentially saying “it doesn’t matter that people are suffering”. In an ideal, utopian society that’s everyone would channel their inner calm when feeing angry, but in a utopian society we also wouldn’t have these issues in the first place.

@SunnyEgg I like what you did there. Smart way to push your agenda, I have to say!

Trying to work out which political parties are associated with these various degrees of left / right.

It seems to me like Labour are not far left. They’re barely left of centre, possibly slightly right with Starmer.

The Conservatives have definitely shifted further right than they used to be, with far more radical policies and discourse (discussing exiting ECHR for example, Rwanda and shitty barges for refugees, arresting peaceful protesters etc) - I think Brexit pushed them further to the right than ever before.

I don’t think there’s a clear and present danger from a “far left” in the UK because they are so far from power, however the danger from the far right is clear and present and they are close to power - UKIP, a fundamentally racist party, infiltrated the Conservatives and pushed it further right.

Where is the apparent “far left” - barely perceptible.

Luckily people got antisemite pretty quickly too

Tg given the ramifications

No regrets on that one

I think the ‘far’ of any side cares more about the argument than what they are actually arguing about. So ironically they have the most in common with each other.

It’s just a question @DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz

I can’t help it if it’s proving tricky for whatever reason

Corbyn was definitely a disaster for Labour, no argument on that from me but what about Truss? she actually materially harmed the UK and its citizens, then there is Brexit, again a Tory idea and disastrously negotiated by Johnson, when a path to better trade and cultural relationship existed.

Corbyn, fortunately never became PM but the Tories have really damaged the UK.

Not a fan of Osbourne but he strongly advised Cameron not to go ahead, DC was too scared of the far right ERG.

Despite that you want a closer EU tie up @SunnyEgg it wont happen, the govt doesn't want that at all, Sunak would rather further damage the UK and keep power than do the right thing for the country.