To worry about the right wing?

[Swingstotheleftslidetotheright]

I'm politically homeless at the moment in terms of who to vote for but morally I sit firmly centre/centre left. I'm very British with that it would seem.

I've seen over the last few years a very hard push left across social media and among the "chattering" classes which has seemingly come with a desire to shut down discussion, debate and conversation if it involves even the mildest of challenge to their way of thinking. What seems to be happening as a result of this shutting down and refusal to engage in a debate is a rise in harder line opposition, whereas before the two sides would have a somewhat heated and healthy discourse about an issue and come away mindful of each others views and with a solution in sight.

I'm noticing the louder the left shout the harder the, previously moderate, right push back and vice versa. Both sides appear to be getting more vocal and more extreme. I'm seeing this a lot around migration, feminism, the economy and crime. I'm now worried that this continued closure of conversation is going to lead us down a path of extremism - from one or both sides - and lead us to a dramatic and unwelcome rise from the far right.

Are we at a point of no return? Can we ever go back to being moderate and tolerant?

🙄 at these types of posts

You could stick to the Labour threads if that’s all you want to read

Btw check out NZ

I wouldn’t bother looking for Corbyn threads though even mnhq finds him too off colour these days

YANBU @Swingstotheleftslidetotheright. The Tories are a complete shitshow. It will be interesting to see if parties further to the right will benefit from their demise.

The great thing about FPTP is that if they do, it will be at Tory expense.

Meh. The political pendulum always swings. NZ have had two terms of a centre-left government, so change was always very likely. Poland have had two terms of a pretty extreme right wing government, and despite the efforts of said government to manipulate the election, the pendulum has swung against them. It's just how politics goes.

Meh in return

Same applies to original post on Poland. Of course it was the NZ one that got this response.

You're not unreasonable at all

I'd describe myself as centre left but in recent years would say I've had more common ground with other centrists than the blue haired Momentum movement end of the Labour Party.

Moderate conservatives are probably centre right.

The Tory party leadership at the moment has lurched worryingly to the right and seems to have embraced a toxic mix of BNP, UKIP types, ERG, disaster capitalists and any other worryingly disgusting person who has three goals:

1. To enrich themselves
2. Blame minority groups and play disgusting divide and conquer politics
3. Try to centralise power, demonise academia and experts and lead average people into believing things like Human Rights legislation and decent working terms are awful.

We need adults back in the room in British politics.

We need adults back in the room in British politics

The (old as the hills) problem is adults are boring and don't sell newspapers, Or website clicks. Hence we progress from Julius Caesar to Nero and then 4 emperors in a year until we reached a level of stability.

@etmoietmoietmoi , re Thatcher and housing, Labour had 13 years in which to get rid of Right to Buy, but despite their endless bewailing of it, they didn’t.

Could that possibly be because they thought it would lose them votes? Not that I’m a nasty cynic or anything…

If you care to look more closely @Rspbc1 , you will be able to locate many former members of those 'tiny' far right groups, now sitting comfortably in the lap of the Conservative Party who once would have had nothing to do with them and their disgusting beliefs. As they have gained ground, decent Tories have left in disgust. Look in your own backyard if you're 'worried' about the right wing.

Well, I suppose "woke" can be a good or bad thing.

It might mean thinking about issues and being open minded and aware, as well as tolerant of different kinds of people. I am like that.

Then it can go so far as to be completely taking the piss and crossing lines into ridiculous.

For example, my view is that it's a good thing to be very sensitive to trans people, listen to them, try and accommodate everyone to life safely and happily as they choose to. But it's flat out bonkers to let a biological male rapist go to a women's prison.

I think some parts of the left have taken being "woke" sooooooo far now that they have even lost me from their debate.

My friend's son is about 14 and he's already declared himself pansexual, bisexual, gender fluid yada yada and it's become fashionable to far overthink things.

Likewise the ,eft tend to jump on bandwagons with issues and be immensely dogmatic about them. They often can't listen to more balanced views and see that they are approaching things one sidedly.

In my view these things let the left down - which is a shame as left wing ideas are generally good

I don't understand why you have a problem with my post. I'm being very equitable here and pointing out that whether you have a left or a right wing government, eventually they will be voted out because that is just how politics works. And whichever way it goes, some people will be happy and others will not.

Personally I'm glad Poland is looking likely to get a better government. Six dead women because of their crazy abortion laws is enough for me to feel that way.

I believe the original point was this thread was bumped due to Poland, which seems a leap but also ignores that other countries are shifting right.

And the pp is here posting in any case, maybe it’s the demise of available Corbyn threads. They do seem to be radioactive these days. I wonder why.

@SunnyEgg there are quite a few countries shifting right. The world is a scary place right now, so that was pretty much bound to happen. Other countries are bucking the trend. I'm concerned about countries which are shifting heavily to the right because right wing governments tend to be bad for women, minorities and LGBT people and since I'm 2 of those, I think that's a bit shit. Right now, Poland is a little ray of light. May there be others.

I'm not generally that bothered about left and right and I'd consider myself centre-left but socially progressive, hence my concern about Italy, Hungary and Poland. It remains to be seen what will happen in NZ, but their National Party doesn't seem extreme to me so am not too concerned about them.

As for Corbyn - he's a has been, politically irrelevant. Hence the lack of threads, other than the spoof one about hair.

You may not have posted on them but I have a few on my threads I’m on list on the topic of Corbyn and antisemitism

They have been deleted by mnhq.

There’s another now, just on who to vote for given previous antisemitism in the party

If you’re not interested in views of Jewish posters then it may seem politically irrelevant. But yes it is coming up and some are deleted.

@SunnyEgg I don't consider myself sufficiently expert to engage in that debate. I also don't see any solutions. And I would probably be considered wildly antisemitic for thinking that Israel's actions in Gaza should not be brushed under the carpet. The zero sum thinking of Israel = good, Hamas = bad is just simplistic. They're both awful and as always it's civilians on both sides who suffer.

As an atheist, I also have no time for either side's religious claims to their 'Holy Land'.

And I would probably be considered wildly antisemitic for thinking that Israel's actions in Gaza should not be brushed under the carpet.

Who would consider that? Jews in general do not argue this. Honestly, this kind of rhetoric is doing the Jewish community real harm now.

I've seen plenty of accusations of antisemitism on MN since the attack. There are many nuanced posters, but there are also plenty of the other kind, and pretending that isn't the case helps nobody.

Antisemitism transcends politics. To use the death and suffering of Israelis and Palestinians to make a point about anyone's favourite UK political party is revolting.

Utter nonsense.

If anyone reads beyond jokey ‘hair’ threads they’d see the site IS heavily interested in discussing antisemitism and politics

It is not an irrelevance at all, unless you wish to avoid it for whatever reason.

I can guess why.

I am discussing Antisemitism and politics @SunnyEgg.

Politics are what causes death and suffering of people. Everything is interlinked. Everything humans see, consume, experience is political. It’s not about “favourite party” - as much as they make it seem like a Big Brother eviction, this is real life.

I also think there are plenty of threads started by those with vested interest, such as undeclared political affiliation.Not to say this one is-who knows-but plenty of threads smack of it.

I've seen over the last few years a very hard push left across social media and among the "chattering" classes which has seemingly come with a desire to shut down discussion, debate and conversation if it involves even the mildest of challenge to their way of thinking.

I've only ever seen the left behave this way.

You ve made the pp point brilliantly.

Criticise one side with a blanket statement, ignoring the real issues on the other (tory) side of the debate.

Right or Left, make a point where the other side cannot defend or argue against and you'll quickly see "shutting down" "refusal to engage" & on MN "don't engage with me" type stuff.

Neither side like being challenged, as Starmer didn't in an interview on Sunday BUT if you ve been in power for 13years with nothing to show for it (according to many Tory campaigners) then you need to be at your best, instead its the same old " but Labour" and "they know what a woman is" ignoring the loss of rights have happened under their choice of Govt.