To worry about the right wing?

[Swingstotheleftslidetotheright]

I'm politically homeless at the moment in terms of who to vote for but morally I sit firmly centre/centre left. I'm very British with that it would seem.

I've seen over the last few years a very hard push left across social media and among the "chattering" classes which has seemingly come with a desire to shut down discussion, debate and conversation if it involves even the mildest of challenge to their way of thinking. What seems to be happening as a result of this shutting down and refusal to engage in a debate is a rise in harder line opposition, whereas before the two sides would have a somewhat heated and healthy discourse about an issue and come away mindful of each others views and with a solution in sight.

I'm noticing the louder the left shout the harder the, previously moderate, right push back and vice versa. Both sides appear to be getting more vocal and more extreme. I'm seeing this a lot around migration, feminism, the economy and crime. I'm now worried that this continued closure of conversation is going to lead us down a path of extremism - from one or both sides - and lead us to a dramatic and unwelcome rise from the far right.

Are we at a point of no return? Can we ever go back to being moderate and tolerant?

About the only thing that looks like can be done is to not tax individuals on income any further, and look at industry to fund some of what is needed to rebuild infrastructure and try and spur growth. And cutting some public services also.

100.5 debt to gdp means there is no money. Just none. We are not going to have some lovely time like Blair in 1997.

I wouldn’t mind as I think it might dispel some of the myths that build up about the opposition when they’ve been out for so long, on how good it’ll be based on another time.

But a couple of policies I could do without, and yes the gender stuff I do actually care about.

If I could lock in a couple of things, and get rid of gimmick policies, I’d happily hand it over for the other side to take the knocks.

I’ll just switch the radio over more as too grating ;

I think some the stuff that looks different but not great isn’t needed anyway. People are voting against not for at this point. They just need to turn up

I could understand the stuff about Labour if the Tories had something to show for their time in power but they haven't.

Still don't understand the GRA criticisms, they've had a decade plus to reform or remove it and still have zero plans to do so, hiding behind the ECHR, kicking it down the road.

Lab or Tory, the UK only has so much money but how the two parties chose to spend it seems to be vastly different.

I think you really need to get with the programme. Rish! has only been PM for a year.

If I'm honest, I'm a lot more worried about the 'far left' than the 'far right'.
From where I'm sat, the far left IS the far right... with blue hair! 😂

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/18/uk-election-tory-rule-rishi-sunak-mps-westminster-labour

The next government, as long as its not a Tory one, can negotiate the interest payments on our debt, down. That will give them a bit of wiggle room.

UK Govt debt is tied to Gilt Yields, how can they negotiate them down? even to try would mean a rise in yields as investors them lost faith in UK Govt not to default.

If Lab need more money, they ll need to tax unearned income more in line with earned.

Getting the economy on a sound footing will mean yields will drop, cheaper current borrowing, remember most debt is historical, so was borrowed with far lower interest rates.

We’ll see expectation management kick in at some point, as in post below

The policies that get attention are too lightweight in terms of much economic benefit

Also bumping up of words like culture wars, ideological and woke etc. trying to play down that side. Of course trying really hard to influence on that front doesn’t last - see Brown fuck up, Sturgeon / Bryson and Brexit result

The policies that get attention are too lightweight in terms of much economic benefit

You obv support the Tories.

What heavy weight policies have they got lined up to improve matters?

Brown isn't an MP, Sturgeon and Bryson both gone/sorted and Brexit, well who fucked that up?

Is that all you ve got?

My point is as much as posters say these things irrelevant don’t matter to the public they do. We’ve seen it a few times.

I can’t see that changing, in fact given global context they will likely increase.

Economic policies are pretty similar, there’s no room for otherwise. That’s why I think this looking at past experience will set up too high expectations on the promises around the bread and butter stuff

Imo though best to go for keeping highest tax payers for burden rather than otherwise

the UK has its back against the wall. I expect cuts in benefits and pensions, in terms of not keeping pace with inflation. The Tories will do that I believe.

We do need growth. Starmer will have to go for wealth that is not income. That isn't going to come from middle classes, it's going to come from asset rich people and companies. And we need to spend it on infrastructure.

And we need to look at benefits. We don't have enough people contributing. I don't see it as a left right thing. It's about funding public service. We have a benefit system that doesn't put people into work and is a public subsidy for employees. Socialism for corporations to pay bad wages.

All these issues are difficult.

We will need to reverse many elements of Brexit to smooth trade. If it’s made easier for firms to export to our closest neighbours then they will have more money to invest and kick start growth.

Why? Right wing = racism and antisemitism (broadly speaking)

and yet time and time again the Labour Party has demonstrated racism, antisemitism and general intolerance towards anybody not inclined to agree with them. They have the least diverse cabinet and whilst the Conservatives have elected 3 women to prime minister, Labour not one, however they did elect a known anti semitic - Jeremy Corbyn - who was staunchly backed by their current leader and deputy leader. And don't get me started on Diane Abbotts and David Lammy's politics of racism! 🤣

I would say though that with hunt as treasurer the Conservatives are far more left wing in their taxation policies than ever before.

I saw a ‘call me’ headline from Germany the other day over trade

Sounds good to me. Get that one going

The massive horrifying demonstrations we have seen against Israel have changed people’s minds. They have seen the hatred against the UK from the Far Left and many immigrants. But it is always the far right to blame?

Where is this hard right that you see so frequently in this country? What hard right policies have you seen.

We have the highest ever immigration, both legal and illegal.

Highest taxes since the second world war

State spending is almost half of all spending in this country, unprecedented.

The size of the civil service has never been higher and output never lower.

Socially, anything goes. You could be a woman in a hospital ward, raped by a man but told it didn’t happen because the rapist identifies as a woman. Paedophile safe minor attached people. Children are being given cat and dog toys by schools if they identify as such.

You could end up with a criminal record for a thought crime if you are deemed to say the wrong thing. Non crime gate incident.

Where is all this hard right stuff in this country?

Just goes to show what a shit show right wing policies are doesn't it?

Brexit, Truss, Austerity, all lead to the disasters you mention, the Tories, though far right in their ideas, are so incompetent they can't even implement them, just listen to the Covid inquiry? we ve now got "Dr Death" running (and i use that term loosely) the country.

At least the voters of Bedford and Tamworth have seen the light and decided we need some change.

If the parties were the same as Sunny says, they d have a returned the Tories, these results also show that for most people Trans issues are way down their list of concerns.

My post, as answered was on economic policies, that’s what you asked

There is not much in it at all. Labour’s point of difference won’t bring much and unfortunately will damage a successful sector

Wealth tax has been ruled out, there’s really very little difference in funding

Labour can promise better infrastructure etc it won’t be possible though. Expectations are based on a different time so it’ll be interesting to see the reality set in

On ‘trans issues’ which is always a give away on how pro woman someone is, it always has the ability to bite politically. But tends to flare up based on a specific event as Sturgeon found out. I can’t see men getting less challenging / threatening on that count.

Sturgeon wasn't sunk over Trans but over allegations of corruption, thats why she stepped down.

Do you think Rachael Reeves isn't "pro woman" ? does she want to see 51% of the population erased? as posters put it.

Lab have a fantastic record on getting women into politics.

I think there is plenty that can be done differently on the economy, Green investment, better EU relations (trade, travel, education) reform of the NHS, changes to education, unearned income taxes e.g with 5 years a couple can have 200k ring fenced from any taxes on investment income, CGT needs increasing, very low in the UK. CT is probably about right, mid G7.

‘Trans’ again.

Why don’t people frame it as women’s rights? After all that’s who’s impacted.

Labour are not proposing any of those taxes listed anyway

It’s only going for a sector with little gain, oh and the most mobile section of society.

We’ll see how much they can spin out of it, it’ll be interesting

We all use different language.

The Tories have been a disaster for women's rights, just as they ve made it easier for a man to become a "woman" opening more nhs GR clinics and reducing the cost of a GRC, given the state of the NHS, you'd think they d not have money, obv a priority for them?

Correct, manifesto not out yet but it has been talked about by Labour.

You probably will get the party you want next up but unless they pull out more tax policies than the ones on the table - I just don’t see any big shift possible and posts haven’t really rebutted that on economic grounds.

I thought the racking up the debt a bad idea but that was equally unpopular when discussed - likely loads of overlap there with posters

I actually do think a Labour gov in this climate is a different scenario to previously due to context so maybe that needs to be experienced to be believed. Apart from women’s rights which as people say they don’t care about, I won’t share that view.

The policies used for little gain are unfortunate as I don’t even think they’re needed for votes.