To be pissed off at friend & husband

[Over40Overdating]

Bit of a rant! And long - sorry!

I’ve been friends with A for many years. She’s a brilliant friend and I would trust her with my life. Since she met her husband, B, 5 years ago, he has been involved in every part of our friendship.
It’s been bloody irritating but she says she likes that he wants to be friends with her friends so I have tolerated it for her.

B isn’t a bad man but has zero social skills and finds himself the most fascinating subject of all time.
He contradicts people, says inappropriate things and will interrupt conversations to start monologing about whatever is on his mind.

It makes spending time together really dull and hard.

A&B had a baby last year and in January moved quite far away (plane ride) to get support from family.
A made me promise I would visit as soon as possible. I said I would but there just hasn’t been time yet : I have been working on a really high stress project that often needed 60 hour weeks and when it came to an end recently I was able to take 2 weeks off : my first break in 4 months to literally crash and rest and catch up on boring domestic stuff.

She messaged me over the weekend to say ‘now that you’ve taken all this time to yourself, I need to know when are you coming to see us’. I replied honestly that I don’t know - work is in flux, I may or may not be made redundant in the coming months and as I’ve just taken 2 weeks off I’ll have to wait to see how everyone else’s diary lines up.

No reply - this is unusual. I thought she’d be disappointed as I know she is lonely and struggling with B as her only social outlet but would give her a call today

I woke up this morning to a string of messages from B berating me for upsetting his wife, being a selfish friend and pretty much demanding I come NOW as he ‘won’t be happy’ with me til I do.

This is not the first time he’s sent me messages making demands or telling me I’ve offended him by not doing what he thinks is best and on every other occasion I’ve checked if A knew and she hadn’t so I’ve told him he’s being inappropriate and patronising and cut it out.

Except today he says she does know he’s messaging me and fully supports it and I ‘should do as he says’.

I am pretty livid right now so haven’t replied.

I don’t think she’s in a controlling or coercive relationship and he treats her very well but this passive aggressive stuff now being at her instigation is both disappointing and pissing me off.

And right now the last thing I want to do is make the effort to take a 2 hour plane ride to sleep on a sofa (they have made it clear they expect me to stay with them to ‘make the most of the time’) with two people who seem to think I’m so very awful and selfish anyway!

AIBU to think ‘away off and shite the pair of you’?!

Ugh he sounds truly repugnant. You're very restrained to not reply, I admire your class and am sure he's the sort you could never get through to anyway. It's helpful that it's crystallised something for you about the friendship - and totally understandable stance on not being his friend for her sake. The situation with her is more complex, but you don't need their drama right now. Even without visiting it's impinged on your time and well-being so you've every right to back away and not get drawn into their unhealthy relationship dynamics.

I'm not berating anyone 🤔 People have emotions; we are not robots. Considering emotional responses when making decisions is not "playing the emotional card". It's being a human.

The reason OP initially gave for not visiting was that she just finished a demanding project and wanted some time off. She only came back with more reasons for not visiting ("work is in flux") when the friend started asking again when she would come, apparently having already been disappointed that OP didn't visit during her time off. So it reads like OP didn't even initiate a conversation with her friend about visiting, despite knowing that the friend was looking forward to a visit "as soon as possible" as they'd previously agreed. She just left her hanging.

The friend is obviously more invested in the friendship than OP is. It may be true that OP is completely burnt out and her job is at risk and there is simply no way the visit could have happened, but the way she's gone about it just makes it seem like she's not that bothered and doesn't really have any intention to go any time soon. If I was desperate to see my close friend and meet her baby, I'd have been really up front about how badly I wanted to see her and that circumstances just don't allow right now but that I hadn't forgotten and would still come ASAP. I wouldn't leave her sitting there expecting/hoping that I'd come and having to ask me if I was actually going to and then giving more reasons/excuses as I went along.

I would actually forward his response to your friend, with a comment such as

"Where is the apology in this? You are my very good friend of x years yet somehow I am no longer permitted to have a close friendship with you anymore as H is always present and monopolising the conversations and dominating. I still haven't heard how your labour and birth was from you. I so sad that you don't value our one on one friendship"

You may as well say it how it is tbh

@Pinkdelight3 me not replying is nothing to do with class I’m afraid (I’d love to be classy!) but I know from previous times that if I reply now he’s feeling called out he will literally bombard me with messages asking me to tell him he’s right and I’m wrong, how misunderstood he is and how awful I’ve made him feel so he doesn’t have to feel bad. He is compulsive when it comes to getting what he needs from a situation and doesn’t seem to understand how much worse it makes things.

@Puppers lets just both be glad then that we are not friends because that would be exhausting.

No response is its own response. And he'll get the message alright. From your previous posts this bloke isn't happy unless he's being placed front and centre, and he will likely behave the same way regardless of whether you engage or not. He sounds the type who talks a great deal but doesn't require a response.

You really do not have to entertain this nonsense. I'd seriously consider blocking him if I were you.

I must say I feel terribly sorry for her, he sounds dreadful.

It's down to her I think to put boundaries in place for him with regards to your friendship. If she can't or doesn't want to, I don't think you'd be wrong to distance yourself. She's telling you that she prioritises his wants/demands over your friendship - which is her prerogative, but it doesn't mean you have to put up with it.

My friend has a husband like that, we are no longer friends, he caused it but she backed him up with everything he said, like a puppet. That’s not what friends do. We haven’t spoken in over 5 years,

I suspect that you'll get bombarded if either way, if you respond or not.

I'd be tempted to put what you've put below to your df and explain that she's the important one to you, and if she wants to chat about it to give you a call. I also suspect this might be the end to your friendship if you're not prepared to pander to him (which I wouldn't).

*Hi friend, your DP has sent me a message to say he is sorry for overstepping, he didn’t phrase it well BUT he is disappointed I have not come to visit yet. So essentially sorry not sorry. Tbh I'm not going to respond as he will only badger me with texts until he grinds me down to agree with him, and I don't have the time or energy for that.

I realise I’m more annoyed and upset than I admitted about how you have essentially made him central to our friendship when it comes to meeting up.

He isn’t my friend and will never be my friend and this ‘he wants to be your friend because you’re my friend’ thing feels like a non negotiable ultimatum.

Anyway, if you want to chat about it, I'm happy to, or maybe just the two of us can have a weekend away somewhere nice, would be great to catch up*

This is a good response because I don't see how you have a friendship with this woman now.

He's awful and for as long as he is answering for her, you are actually wasting your time engaging.

There is no way I would be spending money to visit as there is no way I would share personal space with him.

You have been extremely calm and measured.

I wouldn't reply to him either.

I would probably add to @RandomMess 's message, that you are always there for her if she would like a one on one friendship again into the future.

The alternative is that you basically have a three way friendship which involves him pontificating at you endlessly......life is just too short.

I think you value this friendship more than she does, because this dynamic doesn't arise when a relationship is truly valued by both sides.

@Over40Overdating

I have reached out to a couple of mutual friends - none have been invited to visit and a couple who had zoomed with her gave up because he was sitting in on the calls, taking over the conversation and talking about himself.
Any questions directed to her, he replied to.

Do you think she has any awareness that the way he's behaving - unchecked by her - (especially his mansplaining about her giving birth) is actually causing her to lose friends? And that's why she's pushing you to visit and actually losing friends? 🌹

@BanditsOnTheHorizon very good message too.

Why don't you respond to him with what you said here, "So sorry not sorry?!? Please just stop txting me."

Just block him. There's no need for you to be in contact with him. And your friend's emotional state/needs are not your problem, especially as it was their decision to move away.

I'm one for ghosting in scenarios like this, I don't have the time or the energy for this kind of drama. My time is as important as anyone else's and I wouldn't be summoned by anyone. I'd simply ignore. I think sometimes silence speaks the loudest. We are all too quick to justify ourselves when there's really no need.

Can't you just block him? Honestly, who has time for his bullshit?

Puppers "The friend is obviously more invested in the friendship than OP is"

I think she's less invested if she keeps bringing the bloke along.

OP I hope you get a good resolution to all this. You sound like a very patient and caring friend.

I cross posted, so he will try hound you until you agree with him?

I think the friendship has sailed either way so you may as well be honest with your friend that you cannot tolerate a 3 way friendship as it isn't one. It's a dictatorship by him controlling every narrative.

Honestly I would ghost them at this point, and I think it’s perfectly acceptable to do so.

There’s no way she didn’t know what her husband would write. She’s married to him, she lives with his bullshit every day, and she absolutely knows how he responds to people, and she absolutely knows how the message would have been sent.

At best I might message her and tell her that given you can’t have a three way friendship you don’t think that you can be friends any more. I would also point out to her that her marriage to this man is damaging people’s opinions of her. And then I would block them both.

This friendship is already over anyway, you might as well make it official.

“Dear friend,

I’m glad you can see your husband’s messages were unacceptable. I value you as a friend and hope we will always be friends.

However, in terms of any interaction with your husband, we have gone beyond the point of no return. This has been brewing for some years, but his recent behaviour has brought things to a head. You are my friend, not him. He doesn’t need to be involved in every, or indeed any, of our conversations or meetings. So from now on I think we should only see each other one-on-one. I have blocked his number and don’t want any communication with him. His so-called ‘apology’ was frankly pathetic and killed any chance of me wanting any further contact with him.

Hopefully I can visit your area soon and we can catch up at my hotel or have lunch/dinner together. A proper one-on-one catch-up.”

Why doesn’t the friend visit OP?! The friend is jobless, OP isn’t.

I don't understand how so many people seem to think they can control other peoples lives based on 'friendship'.

I'd never expect someone I care about to be dictated to my by my demands. Neither would I ever be dictated to by theirs.

We all have our own lives, families, work commitments, family responsibilities, health issues...I find it bizarre that this could happen in an equal respectful relationship.

Just speak to her and tell her how you feel. Otherwise you need to weigh up whether the juice is worth the squeeze with this friendship. It sounds like a lot of stress and hard work to me. Friendship is supposed to be the lighter side to life, they're people we literally choose to spend our free time with!

I like some of the suggested messages. The relationship with her is as good as dead at his hands, so I’d want to lay it all out for her, in basic terms, in the hope that she could see what he’s doing and has done.

Because it is fairly horrifying and she doesn’t seem to see it. Him forcing himself into every scenario, speaking over her, speaking for her, his delusion over his own knowledge, value and expertise, and feeling the need to insert it into all conversations, him controlling her friendships and interactions with people, his vocal and spoken criticism (behind her back, often) of her friends… it is all fucked and if she can’t see it, she needs to.

@Over40Overdating

I actually think that this is a good message if you don't want point out to her that his behaviour is domineering, controlling, and is isolating her from her friends. It lets her know that you have put up strong boundaries and puts the ball squarely within her court to continue the friendship, without him being 'involved'.

Just don't be surprised if you get a response full of 'love me love my dog husband' or no response at all. What I think you will NOT get is a response indicating that she will be 'removing' him from your friendship. Because he will be peering over her shoulder as she types, or more likely dictating her response.

(Purely rhetorical question) Why do so many women equate obsessive and isolating behaviours with love? For all my past blindness when it came to abusive men, I was never blind to that. Blind to other abusive behaviours, yes, but not that one.

I have reached out to a couple of mutual friends - none have been invited to visit and a couple who had zoomed with her gave up because he was sitting in on the calls, taking over the conversation and talking about himself.
Any questions directed to her, he replied to

It all sounds pretty awful actually. The more you say about him, the worse it gets.

I'd stick with the No Reply. I'd never contact him again, and I'd block him.

Sorry if I've missed it upthread, but when was the last time you saw/spoke with your friend actually alone, without him around at all? If he's doing this, you can bet he's checking all her messages as well.