Well, I hated the coronation…

[TheColourofspring]

I can see I am in the minority on here but I found yesterday to be distasteful on a gigantic scale. To watch the most privileged people travel in gold coaches & be decorated with diamonds and gold that is priceless in the face of millions of people struggling to eat/heat their homes just feels so wrong.

Our primary school has just opened a food bank. There are kids & families in crisis- children coming into school hungry & smelly as families can’t afford to wash clothes (I am not joking) - living in Dickensian conditions. Some of the teaching staff use the foodbank.

Yesterday was a display of obscene wealth. The royals didn’t even pay for it- we did. How can we find money for that absolute nonsense yet we can’t find money for large swathes of the population to feed themselves.

While Charles was sitting there in his gold costume holding these priceless items, plenty of families weren’t eating. It made me really angry.

I am tired of all the arguments for a royal family- how somehow these displays are quaint. Yesterday was an obscene display of wealth, inherited privilege and everything that’s wrong with this country. Seems a conversation about the royals is long overdue.

I am well aware of the class system in the UK, but as someone living in a country where that sort of thing is considered a load of rubbish, and no-one cares where you went to school, or what your parents do

Which country do you live in?

Also, Ireland have had a couple of decent presidents- Mary Macaleese, Mary Robinson & Michael Higgins (current) - the idea that we have to end up with some power crazed maniac like Trump or Putin etc is frankly bollocks and just an excuse to carry on as is.

Its the same with Scottish & Welsh independence too- mass gaslighting that we won’t be able to survive - none of it based in any sane facts.

Britain might thrive as a democratic republic- there are plenty of countries overseen my decent adults!

They were suggesting that if the RF were to go and a head of state put in their place the UK would possibly not have inequality as they are so special and better than other countries. Typical UK exceptionalism

The poster didn’t say anything of the sort. “So special… exceptionalism” is just invention.

The point is that every country is different and inequality falls in different ways. In the U.K. inequality is intrinsically tied to the class system. Dismantling the monarchy and the Lords would make a fundamental difference to the link between class and power.

Why the Tories keep getting voted in is complex. Sufficient numbers of privileged elite aren’t against rule by public school, that’s the point, and the Tories protect their interests. But equally our political system is broken and the two party model is not working. When both parties are weak at the same time it results in poor government and poor choices for voters. Many voted for the Tories because they think the alternative is worse not from a positive choice.

Another key reason is that Leave voters, including left wingers, see the Tories as the party to deliver Brexit. A sizable amount of left wing Brexiters voted against their political leanings at the last election to “get Brexit done”. That Brexit is revealing itself to be fairly disastrous and opinion polls are already turning against it, is something we will all have to face. The fact it happened at all is an indicator of a broken political system - a referendum called by an arrogant public schoolboy led to being taken out of Europe against the will of half the country, who found themselves without any representation in Parliament through the entire process. Long term the result will inevitably be political reform.

Britain might thrive as a democratic republic

And it might not. Interesting that NZ PM, Chris Hipkins, who is a republican, takes the view that it ain’t broke so there’s no need to fix it.

@AbreathofFrenchair

There won't be a "conversation" because for some reason, its super fashionable to hate the royal family and to blame them for all the wrongs in the UK from lack of food and heating to the disaster that is the NHS.

What people like the OP want is an echo chamber where you can project your thoughts as they are facts. Anyone that offers an explanation is shot down and told how they are supporting something outdated. You aren't prepared to listen or accept other opinions - so stop insisting "conversations" need to happen.

As for 'lots of people are not interested,' there's an awful lots of posts discussing it and desperate people commenting on how much they hate it etc. It's boring! Stop trying to be edgy and ignore it (like any normal person would who doesn't care about it.) It doesn't make you interesting.

And don't even get me started on people who insist they aren't interested and then go on to pretend they didn't know the Coronation was Saturday, as I've seen on posts on here. The whole world knows when it was, stop pretending it never made the news in Twickenham. 🤣

100% this. Brilliant post!

I have noticed something else over the past few weeks too... on all the Coronation bulletins on TV, and at the big Coronation Party I went to yesterday AND in the crowds around Buckingham Palace... There were 1000s and 1000s of people who were Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, and other faiths (other than Christian,) along with many black people, Hispanic, and Asian/South East Asian etc, who LOVE the Royal Family, and were tremendously excited about seeing them, and about the celebrations, and the whole kit and caboodle.

99% of the people who hate on them and come out with all the usual boring #notmyking shite do NOT fit any of those descriptions, and are all exactly the same type of people. The same ones who come out with 'people who voted for Brexit are racist gammon' and 'all boomers are scum who ruined the lives of the young,' and 'all people who vote Tory are thick bigoted c*nts.'

They're on every thread like this, dripping their poison and bile and vitriol, nag nag nagging and goading, and trying to get a rise out of people. What they don't realise is that we're laughing at them, and don't give a SHIT about their opinions. We also know the Royal Family is not going anywhere. They're here to stay. The haters, and their nasty vitriolic views are in a minority in this country.

I absolutely LOVED how the police dealt with the Anti-Royal Family protesters, when they were trying to protest at the Coronation. Kept them well out of sight and arrested them. Hilarious. They didn't get the screen time and the TV gold moment they wanted. They only went down in history as people nobody knew or cared about. No-one even knows the names of ANY of them, and no-one cares! LOL. 😆(I saw them many hours after the Coronation by the way, on the news, being arrested by police earlier that day, they did NOT get any screen time during the Coronation, and as I said, no-one knows their names!)

THIS is what the goady, over privileged, left-wing, Royal family haters, look like. Definitely a running theme there

@TomPinch

Having a royal family is an odd, quaint sort of tradition. But people were saying the same in the 1930s when totalitarianism was all the rage. It was those same of quaint traditions that helped stop Britain (and its associated dominions) going the same way, as Orwell recognised.

Sure the King is rich- only in a sense, because he cannot sell the crown jewels - but so are a great many other people who, unlike the King, have no notion of public service at all.

Compare the UK to the US where people genuinely do believe that all rich people got their money by hard work. Having a monarch is a useful reminder of the nonsense that is, and abolishing the monarchy won't do anything to bring about a fairer society.

That's why I'm a monarchist and that's why I think republicanism is a waste of time. As a Guardian reader I've had about two months of Kevin the Teenager whining about how it's 'so unfair...' and tbh I just don't give a shit.

Another excellent post!

…but your attitude does.

Well I'm left wing & I'm horrified by the damage this Government & Brexit have done to this Country and I'm definitely in favour of the Royal Family!
I don't want a 'discussion' ,another referendum, after the carnage of the last one, I don't want this Govt rewriting the Constitution my god they did a bad enough job of the Withdrawal agreement & look at the mess they created in Northern Island!
I don't want the Country torn in two again!
The Royal family will modernise, give the bloke a chance, but at the moment they are better than the alternative!!

QueueEtwo, Amen to all that......

And where is the Republic of Ireland in the global soft power rankings?

They just about held up in the Top 30 rankings. 🤷‍♂️

Indeed, Brexit actually reduced the Republic of Ireland's soft power and so they dropped again. People forget the ROI and UK would work together within the EU in terms of soft power.

So, the ROI has a President. Good for them. And? It's not actually an argument for abolishing the Monarchy here in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Meanwhile, the United Kingdom ranks second only to the USA and the Royals are a big part of our soft power. In fact, while we had multiple Prime Ministers and an ongoing Brexit negotiations it was the Royal Family's presence that saw the UK maintain our second ranking.

Royal events such as the late Queen's Jubilee, her State Funeral, the Proclamation Of The King and the State Coronation of King Charles III all serve to remind the world of the strength of British soft power.

In today's world, soft power matters just as much as hard power. Even in terms of hard power the UK also ranks second.

So, the Monarchy helps serve as a focal point for the unity of the State and is an extension of British soft power on the world stage. And THIS is an argument for keeping the Monarchy.

As for the nonsense of Scottish and Welsh independence, the point is that the living standards we currently enjoy would absolutely decline in a very significant way afterwards. I, for one, am NOT willing to see the value of my house or living standards decline for decades. The SNPs own Growth Commission makes it clear austerity worse than in the past decade would be required post independence. That's why the SNP no longer refer to their own report. 🤦‍♂️

Hell, even the Scottish Separatists want to keep the Monarch as Head Of State post-independence!

Doesn't that tell you something? 🤷‍♂️

@PrettyMaybug
I absolutely LOVED how the police dealt with the Anti-Royal Family protesters, when they were trying to protest at the Coronation. Kept them well out of sight and arrested them

So you were OK with 2am arrests for the voluntary street safety team of Westminster Council who actually have uniforms and the logo of Met Police on it... they have been years protecting women in the area, keeping women safe, and some carry rape alarms as a matter of course. But OK to arrest them for 14 hours, then and keep them out of sight?

Your post makes me sick. You LOVED it.

Surely that's obvious, in that had Charles died before William arrived the succession would have passed to Andrew

For example the Klosters avalanche which Charles survived in 1988 - luckily William was already born by then (in 1982) but it could easily have been otherwise

@TheColourofspring

This idea that I am somehow jealous of their wealth is hilarious and also frankly terrifying! The idea that anyone without inherited privilege can own half the U.K. is totally ludicrous and honestly also represents everything that is wrong with the royals too!!

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I agree with your view that inherited wealth is an issue. I have no problem with individuals earning high salaries that have earned it through their own labour be that Lord Sugar or a Premiership football player or a city trader. Thats meritocracy.

The issue I have is with wealth and especially inherited wealth. However the majority of MN posts would argue that higher investment in the NHS and the education sector should be paid for by higher income taxes on the rich (the rich obviously being defined as anyone who earns more than them). If anyone suggested abolishing the inheritance tax threshold so that everyone paid inheritance tax then the majority would disagree.

This is why a wealth tax rather increases in income taxes work better at fixing inequality:

Lastly as for the cost of Coronation - it cost £100 million which quite frankly is peanuts compared to the £650 million Rishi Sunak wasted on the eat out to help out offer or the £17 billion (that's 17,000 million btw) lost in fraudulent bounce back loans.

Lastly as for the cost of Coronation - it cost £100 million

Please prove that. The security alone is estimated at £150million

@PrettyMaybug Your post neatly does all the things you accuse the "lefties" you sneer at of.

@polkadotdalmation

"Of course there are areas of deprivation, but I enjoyed the coronation along with millions of other people. Why do some people feel we all need to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator?"

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Because the politics of envy, victim culture and a basic lack of understanding of economics mean that some people would rather achieve equality through the rich becoming poorer than the poor becoming richer.

Lastly as for the cost of Coronation - it cost £100 million which quite frankly is peanuts compared to the £650 million Rishi Sunak wasted on the eat out to help out offer or the £17 billion (that's 17,000 million btw) lost in fraudulent bounce back loans.
Daft whataboutery - both are an obscene waste.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/king-charles-coronation-costs-amount-spending-funding-who-pays-b1078442.html

Because the politics of envy, victim culture and a basic lack of understanding of economics mean that some people would rather achieve equality through the rich becoming poorer than the poor becoming richer.
Tell me about your superior understanding of economics that is going to enable us all to be as rich as King Charles, I'd love to hear the details.

No I am talking about scale - £100 million may seem like a lot of money on a personal scale but on a Governmental spending scale it really is bugger all.

Exactly!

A member of Operation Golden Orb organising committee told The Sun that the ceremony may have cost £100 million. But separate unverified sources have suggested an even higher bill, of up to £250 million, partly because of the vast security costs.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-much-king-coronation-cost-total-who-pays-2023-whzx3z8wn

@Neededanewuserhandle

"Tell me about your superior understanding of economics that is going to enable us all to be as rich as King Charles, I'd love to hear the details."

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More than happy to oblige with the details.

By funding taxation more through wealth taxation than income taxation.

Currently 50% of workers pay no income tax, the top 10% of earners pay 60% of all income tax.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8513/#:~:text=Income%20tax%20payments%20are%20concentrated,60%25%20of%20income%20tax%20receipts.

All this does is to create a market for finding tax loopholes or moving abroad (NHS doctors to Australia) or a disincentive to continue working (over 50s retiring early).

Yet most voters still want taxation to be provided through increased income taxes rather than taxation on wealth such as abolishing inheritance tax thresholds.

This doesn't enable all of us to be as rich as King Charles- there will always be inequality in life. But what it can help achieve is reducing that level of inequality by making the poor better off through a more efficient redistribution of the tax regime away from income and towards wealth.

"Superior understanding of economics" provided - unless you feel inclined to offer an superior alternative.

Do you genuinely think that had the money not been spent on the coronation the government would have spent it on pay rise for nurses etc?

The government is choosing public sector pay rates. They aren’t choosing between the coronation and school or NHS funding.

Government spending is not the same as household spending.

@Mirabai

£100 million or £250 million it is still bugger all in the scale of Government spending.

Here's an interesting insight. If you had a big jam jar (actually a very big jam jar) and put £1 in every second then it would take 11 days to reach a million pounds. However to get to a billion pounds would take 33 years.

That's why the £100 or £250 million spent on the coronation is irrelevant compared to say the £17 billion lost in fraudulent Covid bounce back loans.