Increase in culture of envy

[BrighteyesBonnie]

AIBU to think that the culture of envy has increased significantly in the UK (if Mumsnet is anything to go by)?

For example, a thread by a lawyer asking whether their current salary is fair given their qualifications and years of experience contained a lot of responses angry that the OP is earning more than them and also ridiculing the OP for wanting a better salary.

Another example are threads on private schools, where there is a strong undercurrent of anger at those who are sending or want to send their children to private schools. Privately educated people are viewed with harsh lenses and often insulted.

Ambition and doing well do not appear to be appreciated if you’re doing better than the average.

@ShoesoftheWorld but that's the choice we have to make. Do we want to continue with the level of inequality we have, where jobs which are inherently beneficial to society are poorly rewarded, or do we want to close that gap, pay more tax but also have far better services?

The past 50 years suggest that most people in the UK want option 1, which is sad.

The OP reads as if the rich are being picked on for having better lifestyles than the average Jo who shouldn't think a 2 tier education system a problem. Segregated education, one for the rich, a chronically underfunded one for everyone else. A land of opportunity where anyone can become anything, eh?

I agree entirely with you, on both points - and living elsewhere as I do, I think I have an awareness that it can be different. Which has virtuous circle-type results - as an example, state-subsidised childcare from the first birthday (with a general minimum entitlement of half a day every day and more as needed, and parents paying an income-linked contribution) means parents can afford to return to work even on low incomes, and means they have more money to put into the rest of the economy = greater tax take. Try that in the UK, you get 'you chose to have children, you pay for them'.

Did you read the thread she was referring to? It isn't about rich people.

It's about private education which is for rich people whether they consider themselves rich or not.

your private school thing is ridiculous. two tier society where only the rich get to benefit significantly from their private education regardless of their intelligence level is wrong.

So, people buying expensive houses in good state school catchments, private tutoring etc is also wrong?
Everybody is always silent on this, even @ShoesoftheWorld studiously chose to ignore it.

Of course it's an essentially unfair use of privilege. Does the existence of methane mean we shouldn't reduce CO2?

But there's a suspicious silence on the threads relating to these other things. While ANY private school thread, almost uniformly gets the 'check your privilege' crowd. Just have a quick look with the search function.

On a broader level 'unfair use of privilege' makes no sense. You can't prevent parents helping their kids. It's not even state vs private. It's the parents who take their kids to museums, activities, etc. Even if private schools were banned, this would not stop some people being more privileged.

Unless you bussed all kids into government boarding schools and kept them there.

A country cannot tax its way into prosperity. If you want the UK to adopt an approach that penalises those who dare to be financially successful, then you will have a country that will be much poorer overall. One whose place amongst the most developed nations will be severely undermined.

Like Brexit, people pointed fingers at a whole range of “others” as the root of their discontent. Now look where we are. Most people are worse off for it.

Exactly.
Sadly many can't - or won't see it.
Easier to stew in anger.

… and that is partly why it is envy. Irrational anger dipped in hypocrisy.

There are plenty of them, as evidenced by the very reason you started this thread in the first place, and why some posters respond to them in the way you so dislike.

Also, people's circumstances are not necessarily down to life choices. My father, for instance, did not choose to drop down dead when I was a child.

Please help me see how for instance the solicitor asking about the fairness of her salary on a forum such as MN is looking down on anyone.

It's not a culture of envy; it's just envy. Sometimes justified, sometimes not. But an increase is only to be expected, given the increases in inequality, insecurity and frank poverty.

Please help me see how for instance the solicitor asking about the fairness of her salary on a forum such as MN is looking down on anyone.

I don't think she is. But in her OP she really should have made it clear that she realises how relatively privileged she is compared to those of us who have to get by on more average wages. I think a lot of people who are doing well financially have blinkers on and don't want to see how increadibly tough life is right now for people who don't have those incomes and who are nevertheless working incredibly hard. A little bit of humility and empathy really wouldn't go amiss.

Ironically,

It is lower and middle income earners in the UK who pay less in tax relative to our European peers with better services.

The reason why the UK feels so expensive now for higher earners is that not only do we pay very high tax rates (similar to European peers), but we also subsidise the lower earners via the prices we pay for various services (nursery fees for example).

And what do we get for this?

Anger and bitterness directed at us even though it is higher earners that are working to subsidise the lives of lower and middle income folks in the UK.

So if the lower and middle income folks want better services (like our European peers) they are going to have to pay more income tax. But of course, they don't want to do this.

They have become a bottomless pit of "more more more" that does not seem fixable to me now from a financial standpoint given we have an aging society with a poor demographic profile.

The lower and middle income folks in the UK are getting poorer because the UK as a whole is getting poorer, thus tax subsidies from higher earners will not be enough to plug in the gap of their deteriorating standard of living.

Thats the sad reality. The country voted to be poorer (Brexit), so that is what it is getting.

We have decreasing social mobility, increasing financial disparity. We have a 'political class' in Government who have very little understanding or care for the 'have nots' in society.

Yes, there is envy. There is also anger. Much, much anger. Which is why it is increasingly unwise to wear a very expensive watch, or drive a very expensive car. The two combined, are a powder keg.

This.

Alright, tone police.

The OP of that thread doesn't actually have to apologise for having had the audacity to train and qualify as a lawyer before asking for advice.

If you don't feel her life is relevant to yours, click out of the thread and move on.

People will to a certain extent do this subsidising but when they get hatred and vilification in return it’s going to be tricky when they offski.

@MargotBamborough of course the OP in that thread doesn't have to apologise. And yes, she was being underpaid for her job. But at the same time the way she worded it was tone deaf, and tone matters because there are a lot of people here on MN who worry about where their next meal or their next rent payment is coming from. Acknowledging that doesn't hurt anyone.

'Unfair' doesn't necessarily mean 'we can or should stop it' (although it often will). It probably does mean 'we should do our best to ameliorate it'.

Private school threads get 'check your privilege' comments when the tone they are written in is one of self-pity.

Not sure where to start with the description (in another post above) of whole sections of society as 'a bottomless pit of "more more more"'.

That’s ridiculous. When asking questions about personal circumstance why would you consider how you may offend? The list of the perpetual offended on MN nowadays is massive. You would never not offend someone. Do we need to do this for other career advice, health advice, family advice, relationships etc?

Actually lots of people do start with apology. Bit sad