To not want SIL’s dog anywhere near DS

[GreeneryParsonage]

I will preface this by explaining I’m not the biggest fan of dogs (I really mean no offence to dog owners, please don’t let that be a distraction on this thread). Small and medium dogs who are friendly, I have no issue with. If such a dog comes up to me, I will happily engage and bend down and stroke. But I don’t like big dogs and I don’t like seeing dogs in shops and restaurants. Explaining that just in case it has affected my position and I am being unreasonable.

SIL has two dogs. A medium sized one and a huge one (and I mean huge - DH is 6 foot and it’s about waist high for him). I know it’s relevant but I don’t want to say the breeds as it will be outing, but the big one is a traditional hunting dog and it has killed livestock whilst out on walks.

My in laws live far away so we don’t visit that often, as my PIL usually visit us every few months instead. The first time we went up with DS, he was a few months old and SIL only brought the smaller dog to my PIL, and that was fine. Kept an eye on them but the dog was completely uninterested in the baby.

The second time we went up, DS was walking and I did tell DH and my PIL that I was uneasy about having such a big dog near DS, partly because it’s so big and partly because I was worried DS would go up to the dog and grab it and the dog wouldn’t react well. They reassured me it was fine, there won’t be any issues, etc.

Well, SIL arrived with the dogs and after half an hour, she brought the dogs into the house. I carried DS into the room and the second the big dog saw us, it started growling at us. No wagging of the tail or anything, just an immediate growl showing the teeth.

I walked right back out of the room and told DH that I don’t want that dog anywhere near DS. DH told me I was overreacting and it’s fine, that the dog was growling because it must have sensed I was nervous. But the growling was immediately after DS and I walked into the room. There was no way that was a friendly growl.

MIL and SIL were busy chatting so they didn’t notice it, so I’m pretty sure they thought I was being dramatic but SIL agreed to keep the big dog in the garden for the remainder of the afternoon.

We are due to go and visit at the end of May. When I was talking to my MIL yesterday and told her I don’t want that dog anywhere near DS, I could tell by her tone and her facial expression that she thought I was being silly and she didn’t really say anything either way.

I told DH this morning that I am serious and I do not want that dog anywhere near us. DH started with his explanation that the dog responded to me being nervous, but he’s very much “let’s see what happens”.

The issue is SIL doesn’t live close to PIL, so visiting us when we’re there is a full day trip for her, which is why she can’t leave the dogs at home. So me insisting that the dog can’t be near DS makes it difficult for her to visit. However, I do not trust that dog and I do not want it anywhere near DS. The dog very well may have been growling at me instead of DS, but I don’t want to take the risk to find out.

The dog has actually done the right thing (bear with me!) in showing it’s discomfort by growling. It didn’t go straight to biting. Your SIL is doing the wrong and reckless thing by ignoring the warning.

You’re absolutely in the right to never be in the vicinity of the dog. Your SIL is reckless and a bad dog owner.

To add to the above - it’s very likely a dog that’s growling would later escalate. It’s literally signaling it’s discomfort.

The fact that this dog has bene in a position where it could kill sheep on several occasions shows your SIL is an appalling dog owner with an out of control dog. No way would I be letting it any where near my kids.

it’s killed sheep on several occasions when out on walks.

WTAF did I just read? How on earth has this been allowed to happen?

OP, I am a dog lover but you are being very reasonable indeed.

I'm a big dog owner. My sibling has a small dog - they baby it. It was baring teeth at my young DC. DC was just walking and I had the same reaction.

I have really big dogs and my dogs don't react like that to DC.

Thing is - the dog is giving a clear warning. Growling is good! A growl from a dog is saying - I'm uncomfortable, I don't like this situation, please back away.

Learning to read dog body language is a key skill for protecting dogs and children.

Maybe it phrase it like- the dog is clearly uncomfortable around DC.

So this isn't a big dog thing, this is just a dog that is uncomfortable around a young child. Everyone should respect that.

I'm very much a dog person and I also wouldn't be letting a young child near that dog, for everyone's sake. Clearly the dog is uncomfortable around you or your child and forcing them into that interaction is in no one's best interests - including the dog's.

If a massive dog reacts badly to nervous people then that dog needs to be contained.

IF A DOG CAN NOT BE TRUSTED AROUND NERVOUS PEOPLE IT NEEDS TO BE CONTAINED.

And trained. The dog has proven it is not safe by growling. It was not being attacked. A safe dog would not react unless significantly provoked ie it was under attack. Even then many wouldn't.

Please put this to your dH. A dog who has attacked livestock and who is reactive around people FOR WHATEVER REASON is not a safe dog and at the size of the dog in question it is potentially lethal.

And I'm an owner of 2 dogs. Lover of animals.

Absolutely! 👏
"The dog only growled because you were nervous"
"Oohhhh well that's ok, let's take no notice then"

No

A growl is a growl and you're a fool to ignore it.

Anyone who does ignore it is failing to respect the dog.

I love dogs, but you are definitely not being unreasonable. However, your husband’s suggestion to proceed with the visit and ‘let’s see what happens’ is very unreasonable, irresponsible, and foolish. It is also mind-boggling the dog is allowed to kill other animals, I would expect that to be illegal and cause consequences.

I have developed dog allergies so have to stay away from dogs now, but when our late dogs were still with us we monitored them very closely whenever they were around others and would have immediately removed if signs of discomfort, aggression, etc. Irresponsible dog owners do a disservice to everyone, including their dogs.

How the hell did the dog kill livestock? Your SIL must be an irresponsible dog owner and the dog is not under control. Your instincts are correct.

I love dogs and have a big dog and I agree with you.

The killing of livestock wouldn't bother me in that it wouldn't automatically mean aggression towards humans. But the growling at you and your DS would.

My terriers have killed things on walks - they have never shown aggression to any human.

That's not to say I agree that the dog should have been allowed to kill sheep.

Stick to your guns OP, I love dogs, have one myself and was brought up around them but owners like your SIL scare the life out of me. Both myself and my DM have the dreaded bull breeds and neither are known to be in any way aggressive but they get nowhere near any DC visiting either of our homes, nor would we expect to bring them along when visiting relatives homes.

Owners like your SIL baffle me, even if they're not concerned about the DC in this scenario why would they put their (presumably beloved) pet in a potentially stressful situation like a family gathering with unfamiliar DC running around and risk them reacting badly and possibly having to be destroyed? Safety (especially DC's safety) around dogs is as much about protecting my dog as anything else for me, it's my job to make sure his behaviour doesn't endanger himself or anyone else and so I don't put him in situations where anything could go wrong. I genuinely don't understand these blasé owners who don't seem to worry about this stuff 🤷🏻‍♀️

We have dogs and if we go out for the day we have a dog walker take them out, sometimes twice.

I have a medium to large dog, a GSD cross, nowhere near the size of dog you're talking about.

She's my absolute world and I love her like my family.

However I would never, ever allow her to kill livestock. If she ever managed it once I'd be mortified and would never, ever let her off lead again anywhere near other animals.

If she growled at a child, she'd be removed to another room for the duration. No hesitation at all.

Not just for the sake of the child but for her sake too...if she's growled she'd clearly be telling me she was stressed and I wouldn't want to keep her in that situation knowing that if she snapped and bit someone she'd have to be put down and it would be my fault, not hers (she's never shown any signs of aggression by the way, this is all theoretical).

Your DH and family are bonkers. Their response is definitely one of people who have no control over their animals at all which is the most dangerous thing here.

I've got a small dog who sometimes yaps at small children …I think it’s because they move quickly and unpredictably. He’s never bitten, snapped, growled or killed livestock but he’s kept on a short lead because I just can’t guarantee that he won’t bark. It’s to protect both the child and my dog.

Im sure you’ll keep your DD away from this dog and I’m sure your in-laws and DH will moan. It’s annoying but sometimes we are forced to be unpopular.

I wouldn't give a damn about making myself unpopular in order to protect my child. If they want to see your DS they need to take sensible steps to keep the dog away from him. It's a no brainer.

I would also say I've spent a lot of time around dogs growing up, walking rescue dogs, my own dog, friends dogs...

Bearing in mind I have a GSD x Doberman and I grew up with, and walked as a volunteer, various types of bull terrier e.g. Staffies.

I've never had any of them growl and bare their teeth at me. Ever.

My dog growls at me when she's resource guarding and I'm getting close to a highly prized bone (I.e. she's communicating something specific to me) but she's never, ever bared her teeth and I can't imagine her ever doing that or growling at anyone for no reason.

The fact that she has allowed her dog (illegally BTW) to distress and then kill livestock more than once means she has no judgement at all. Criminally so, because sheep worrying is an offence.

She's proved she can't be trusted to control her dog and that the dog has a pretty big prey drive.

Not in a million years would my child be near the dog.

Yanbu.

Look after your son

I wouldn't give a fuck what Sil said

What breed (seriously, its not outing, just tell us.)~

Whilst some dogs DO growl in play, in communication of all sorts of things, this really doesn't sound like that at all.

This sounds like a big dog, uncomfortable or anxious in strange situations, around new people or with visitors in the house...

Growling usually means 'go away/give me space/stop that' - you did exactly the right thing.

THe livestock killing - again this does not automatically mean 'dangerous to children', and predation towards prey species does not mean aggression either (aggression is about stopping a situation, creating space etc unless the animal has lost the plot entirely or has some neurological issues. Predation is about hunting, killing and consuming, reducing distance!).

However that a dog has killed livestock on multiple occasions, and that the owner suggests your nerves are a trigger for her dogs behaviour, clearly says to ME she does not understand her dogs behaviour, thinking, nor the risk her dog presents to others.

SO as much as I love big dogs, and I have had big dogs, I would not be willing to entertain that situation at all. Hard no from me!

YANBU. I definitely wouldn't take the risk if it were me. BTW I like dogs, but I know that some are unreliable and dangerous.

I'm assuming something like a Rhodesian ridgeback.

Enormous hunting dogs are great. But you wouldn't be able to get it off and neither would she.

Stand your ground ,your 100% right

I doubt your child is as heavy and robust as a sheep, it killed a sheep, your Dh and his family are mad. Print off the picture someone put with the ladder of aggression. They are stupid.

I've only just noticed the bit where your DH said 'let's see what happens'. And if your DC is killed then what? Say there there sister, accidents happen, we can always make another. Should this man even have unsupervised contact with your DC, he sounds totally incapable.