Am I cruel?

[Cruelornot89]

I had a very long and frustrating evening this evening. Cleaning, tidying, organising for a party tomorrow, cooking for it (a party that I will do all the work for) and trying to fit my own job in at the same time.

Way past bedtime, DDs age 7 and 8 were in the kitchen. DD 7 was winding up our very lovely, usually chilled-out dog. The dog was starting to growl. I kept saying “DD, leave the dog! She’s not happy, leave her alone.” Not in a shouty voice but a serious one. It didn’t matter how many times I said this (my hands were full of laundry so I couldn’t remove the dog physically at that moment) but DD kept winding the dog up by squeaking her toy (which she hates - it’s her one precious toy that she doesn’t like being squeaked. We all know this.) So I said: “If the dog bites you, the dog will get into trouble and could get put down.”

They didn’t know what this was, so I told them, both DDs burst into tears.

DH comes out of his study where he’s been trying to hide (and work) all evening to tell me that I’m very cruel.

Was I being cruel? Was that a horribly inappropriate thing to say? I wanted DD to understand how serious it was to goad the dog. She needs to know better! DD was overtired and overexcited but I can’t just let that happen. What else do I do?

Anyway DD8 said “I agree with daddy. That was a cruel thing to say.”

Now I’m left feeling like a piece of shit.

This.

I can't get my head round not separating your child and a growling dog because your hands were full of laundry.....

But no, you weren't cruel by explaining what would happen if she carried on doing what she was doing.

Every single dog has the potential to be a danger - it's incredibly naive to think otherwise. I work with dogs on a daily basis and I'm not blind to how dangerous they can be.

A dog that is growling is a dog that is escalating up the ladder of aggression. It is sending out crystal clear warnings that it is not happy.

It's also very rare that a dog will go straight to growling so I suspect there were a lot of signs the OP missed as her back was turned - whale eye, avoiding eye contact, moving the head away and stiffening of the mouth and body are all signs that a dog is unhappy with what's going on.

So yes, the children should have been removed because they were the ones pestering the dog when their mum had told them "no". Just like you'd (hopefully) take them home from the park or soft play if they were being naughty and refusing to listen.

The only person you are being cruel to is yourself.

Why are you doing all of this yourself?

It's way past bedtime, why were the kids still up, why are you doing laundry, while prepping for a party, why are you cleaning and tidying while doing your job?

Why is your DH allowed to work in peace if you are not, was he actually at work?

Bin the dog toy, tell your DD you were speaking the truth and actually she was being cruel tormenting the dog.

Tell your DH to step up and stop undermining you.

They were old enough to hear the truth. I can't imagine the punishment that would have rained down on me if I had ever done that with a dog when I was a child and it would have rained down on me. I imagine I was taught how to treat dogs as a small child. My mother was careful to teach my children to be gentle with her endlessly tolerant Tibetan spaniel. I still remember having to explain to a two year old that pulling his fur out slowly wasnt being gentle - he had a lot of fur and he wasn't hurt. Once he knew he was always careful to be gentle with the dog. Your husband sounds a bit of a prat.

You weren’t cruel, you were factual. Your daughters were being really naughty, more so the 8 year old with the backchat-however it’s no wonder she feels like she can be cheeky when your husband has undermined you like this. Does he often undermine your parenting? It will bite both of you on the arse (pardon the pun 😁) when the kids are playing you off against each other.

Oh also I agree with PP about binning the toy or only letting the dog have it when the kids aren’t around. It’s not worth the risk!

I don't think you were cruel. It is the truth and they are not too young to know it and to behave appropriately with the dog. Hopefully knowing the truth means that they won't do it again or at least not for a while so you won't have to be constantly stressing and separating them. There's a very sweary dog trainer on instagram Southenddogtraining who I'm sure has some non sweary posts about this exact thing you can check out and show your kids and H.

Agree with previous pp about lack of support from your DH in the lead up to the tears and should not have said you were cruel in front of the kids.

I don't think you were cruel at all. I think your daughter behaved badly and I would have sent her out the room or to her room. The issue is she didn't listen to you when you asked her to do something whcih is bad behaviour.

Amazing that DH was 'too busy' to parent his children but managed to swoop in at that exact moment to make you feel like shit and undermine you.

Not cruel at all - and PP are right - you are only human and it sounds like a very stressed one right now! Don't beat yourself up. Hopefully your DD will now stop teasing the dog!

It would be cruel if it was a lie and you told her this to upset or scare her. But it’s the truth and she is old enough to understand that actions have consequences

FFS.

If the dog got to the stage where it is growling you remove it from the room immediately and you have a stern word with your daughter.

You don't just seat/stand there while she keeps doing the same thing.

The dog could have snapped.

The issue is not that you said something cruel it is that you waited so long to act. The laundry was not the priority.

I can't get my head round not separating your child and a growling dog because your hands were full of laundry.....

She shouldn't have to physically remove the dog or a child of that age, the child should do as she is told!!

Oh and don't get rid of the poor dog's toy just because your DD can't behave appropriately around the dog.

Your kids were being a pain in the arse and they learnt a lesson. Meh. Your husband hid from all responsibility all night, so coming out to tell you off is a bit fucking rich. And your kids are old enough to know about the doggy facts of life.

And yes, a kid that age should do as they’re told. They’re not a toddler.

Your daughters behaved really badly, you explained the natural consequences of that bad behavior. Your husband should have backed you up not ganged up on you with the children. YANBU at all. Your husband is a dick.

It's not cruel, it's true. My kids are younger and I'd tell them that. They are old enough to understand the consequences of their actions. Your daughter wasnt crying (in my opinion) because of the 'horror' that she felt about what she heard, she was crying because shed been (rightly) told off and felt guilty when she realised how badly she had behaved.

Your husband is a dick for letting you do all the work and then coming out at the last minute to undermine your parenting infront of the kids. If he genuinely thinks its cruel to explain to kids that a dog will likely get PTS after biting, even if others have been winding it up, then he could have taken you aside or told you later and suggested an alternative for later. It sounds like he was just pissed off about the crying

Thank you everyone! I have read all of your replies and taken them in. I’m glad to know it’s something the children are old enough to hear! And that DH was being unreasonable. And yes, next time I won’t just tell them to stop, I’ll make it stop. (Hopefully there’ll be no next time?!)

A few people said to get rid of the toy, one said not to. I don’t quite know what to do here because the dog loves that toy so instinctively I don’t want to get rid of it. She carries it round with her when people come over because she likes to show it to them, and she also goes to get it when she’s excited (it’s a half-mutilated squeaky soft toy), she just doesn’t like it to be squeaked. I don’t know why. Whether it’s the squeaker sound, or the fact that it’s being stepped on or pressed, I don’t know. What do people think?

I have actually spoken to both DDs this morning about it again calmly. They have been cuddling the dog a lot today. (The dog is very happy with this!)

I haven’t spoken to DH yet because people will be coming over in the next hour and I don’t want to risk an argument! I think he must have felt slightly bad because he did almost all of the setup work this morning.

Anyway - thank you! I didn’t know which way this would go, but I really appreciate all your replies! And I feel much less like an awful mother and I am going to spend more time explaining dog body-language signs to DDs.

Don't just "make it stop" - pre-empt it by explaining why the dog was growling, and why all dogs growl. Show them the escalation pyramid (easily found on Google if you've never come across it before), and explain how she'd tried all of the other things to get them to stop but they'd ignored it, and how close she was to a snap and a bite over something that made absolutely no difference to DDs.

I think they should be old enough to understand it all.

As for the toy...getting rid of it would be punishing the dog for something that absolutely isn't her fault at all - in fact, she absolutely did the right thing by trying to communicate her unhappiness without aggression. Does she ever make it squeak? If not, then removing the squeaker might be a good idea.

I think you can take the squeaker out of the toy or at least break it. Can you take a pair of scissors to the underneath valve bit?

Glad your DDs are being kinder to the dog today, hopefully your DD has learned a lesson despite you being 'cruel' 😆

Hope your party goes well today too.

Yep.

I also agree with @FictionalCharacter

Why is telling the truth mean? Admittedly I'm someone who is quite blunt and says things how they are, my own DDs prefer it, they know where they are with me.

I think you need to keep an eye on the DD that behaved like that. I think it is extremely concerning that she behaved like that aged 8 as it really is not normal and nor is your DH's reaction.