To think even Labour know we can’t afford everything the public want?

[Coffeeandbourbons]

Off the back of another thread, Labour have dropped their pledge to make tuition fees free.

I read a lot on here (and hear a lot IRL) that this country is very wealthy and that we could afford everything the public want (excellent and efficient public services, lots of things subsidised or free such as prescriptions and childcare, a generous benefits system) if we just tax the rich enough. However our economy simply isn’t growing and we’re heavily in debt.

AIBU to think we’re actually up the shitter, can’t afford what we think we can and even Labour knows this, hence the broken pledges?

Interested to hear from economics-savvy Mumsnetters as I’m a bit rubbish with the numbers…

Precisely.

The state of Kerala, India has just put together a plan to enable 75% of the population (total pop. 33 million) to go to university.

Yet apparently the UK can't even dream of 50%.

It's priorities, that's all.

There are no easy, convenient answers, no ‘magic money trees’.
I actually think people would happily pay an extra 1% tax if it was ringfenced to fund the NHS. They don’t want to pay extra tax that goes into the big pot and vanishes, and they can’t see any direct benefit from it. But if it went to the NHS and they could see a personal benefit in terms of reduced waiting times and access to services, then they would be fairly happy about it. But for some reason the government never considers ringfenced tax as a solution.

The problem with ringfenced taxes it that they are hard to budget for. What happens in a recession when that tax brings in less than expected?

But on the whole I agree - we all need to pay a much higher amount of tax to get the public services we need. This means increasing capital gains tax so it is the same as income tax, adding NICs into income tax so wealthy pensioners pay it too, and increasing the basic rate of tax. Emminently sensible, deeply unpopular ideas. So politicians won’t go with them as they don’t want yo get voted out. They’ll keep pretending someone else can pay.

But where is the evidence that 75% of people going to university benefits society? Does it?

And does Kerala, India, spend as much per head on healthcare, primary/secondary education, public services and benefits as we do?

Better to say now than after an election.

Personal preference would be to have a graduate tax, and I think fewer people should go to university. Training and education should be much more by and with an employer.

I think it is good that Labour are stating upfront what they plan to do and more importantly how they intend to fund their policies. I am less concerned about private schools and would prefer to see the use of zero hour contracts severely restricted.

However, tinkering around the edges is not really helping anyone with the cost of living changes, neither will taxing the rich, as they have the means to leave the UK and the tax burden will just be passed onto those working average salaried roles. I would love to see Labour set out a vision for 21st century Britain and create more careers at all levels within STEM/construction industries.

They need to get someone else to head the Labour part Kier Starmer is shyte.

On top of their student loan?

Would you really ditch a leader 18 months out and pick someone - anyone - else?Can’t see anyone waiting in the winds who isn’t shyte.

Funnily enough research ( use google ) suggests that millionaires don't leave a country because of higher tax rates

Some do but most stay

Kier Starmer doesn't have to be perfect. He just has to be better than Rishi Sunak. That's it.

We need employers to be providing further education schemes (I did this and got a degree while working years ago) unfortunately they seem very rare these days. It's no good saying fewer young adults should go to university if we don't have an alternative option.

We can afford the fucking coronation though can't we?!

People need to stop voting Tory. That's pretty simple too.

We're not a wealthy country. We are in debt. thats the opposite of wealth.

And as for taxing the rich more - don't they pay more anyway? Income tax is based on a percentage so - roughly speaking - if you earn 30k and get taxed 20% you pay 6k in tax. If you earn 40k you pay 8k in tax. So the richer person pays more. Or am I missing something?

There is so much crap from the last 13 years to be undone that Labour will barely be able to scratch the surface in a single term.

The UK needs a major structural shift to change the huge wealth inequality in this country. It will be nigh-on impossible for Labour to achieve that in a naturally conservative-leaning country. I think the best we can hope for a some small changes that won't make much difference but will hopefully at least benefit the poorest in society. Then the Conservatives will get in again and the gap will widen.

What I do not understand (and I am happy to have it explained to me) is that the Tories built up a massive reserve and then covid happened and almost the entire country shut down. Labour keeps bleating about 'where did the money go' and 'fiscal mismanagement' but it seems the UK has forgotten that billions went into paying furlough and mortgage holidays and keeping people alforat and businesses afloat and they tried their damend best to keep people in some sort of funds as much as himanly possible. But it all cost a bomb and it had to come home to roost somehow.

*afloat

I completely agree with this, and will add to it that we're going to end up with Boris bloody Johnson as PM again when the Conservatives get back in after one term of Labour government.

I thought we actually had a ring fenced tax - the 1.25% uplift in NI was supposed to be for social care wasn’t it? Then they had to reverse it!

I don’t support Labour (or any of them any more) but I hope Labour get in - to show that absolutely nothing will improve.

I doubt they’ll change him

From a purely economics perspective high taxes / tax the rich policies, don’t result in economic growth - and that’s what we need. Growth.
As a 1%er, I’m already at an effective 50% tax rate. Fine, those with broadest shoulders etc. But the Tories are NOT the low tax party, and haven’t been for a while now. Labour needs new tricks other than tax the rich, get rid of non-dom, windfall taxes, VAT on private schools. Claiming they can pay for stuff with windfall taxes on the foreign profits of multinationals is pure deception. Starmer himself is saying they need to find ways to stimulate growth.
pre Brexit, the UK was forecast to have a stronger economy than Germany by the early 2020s. I hope everyone who voted Brexit is having a really really tough time. Idiots

the cost of Covid lockdowns is absolutely huge something like 100,000 per head of population, it makes the rest look like small change so much money wasted in furlough keeping businesses closed etc it is the biggest reason for recession in Western Europe etc