NHS Doctors refused evacuation from Sudan by British Government - DISGUSTING!

[Raggletagglegypsy]

Shameful and shocking that NHS doctors should be turned away from evacuation flights from Sudan, simply because they have British residency, but are not British nationals. Just watching Newsnight on catchup and I was so enraged that I couldn't keep watching. I really hope that this matter has been put right since Newsnight aired yesterday. A medic who served the British people at Manchester Royal Infirmary through the pandemic was escorted out of the airport where he had arrived for evacuation, wanting to return to his work as a registrar. There are apparently over 20 doctors known to be in a similar position (having visited families for Eid - many with young children). The doctor who was interviewed described the situation as "disappointing" - I would use stronger vocabulary.
WE SHOULD ALL BE RAISING THIS WITH OUR MPs TODAY!

@Doagooddeed
We currently have 8 applicants to 1 place for medicine. So hardly a shortage of applicants. Work for 30 years and get a stonking pension is not a bad return. I accept the working conditions are poor in some instances.

The reason other countries pay more is that they have a widespread compulsory insurance system and a partially privatized health service. I’m in favour of that in return for better pay. We try to do too much with fewer people paying tax to fund it. Even the Labour Party recognises the need for change. It will come. In some instances we barely have a health service worthy of the name.

A bit off thread but I think it is laughable to say that doctors are in it for the money. They tend to be at the top of the tree academically and need to impress with their soft skills too to even get a place to study medicine in this country. Do you know how hard it is to get a place?They could choose many paths to better pay prospects. Just because people are in caring professions doesn't mean they have to be Mother Teresa. Why should they feel loyalty for an employer who doesn't value them? A lawyer wouldn't. It's market forces that's all. In any case, IMO better they go abroad where they are valued than leave the profession completely, which is what a lot are also doing right now. They are saving lives wherever they are geographically. BTW If they are overseas doctors, by definition we didn't train them. They qualified abroad.

Or maybe they were ‘holidaying’ in the Uk because they could see it all brewing?

The fact that they have (it's actually more than 8) applicants for every place should tell you that they only take the very best candidates. Who knows what the pension will be in 30 years - that is called 'jam tomorrow'. Yes, the NHS is dire but the doctors and nurses in it are not.

So many ad hominem - you mean, the other people who have resorted to calling people racist etc in the face of facts? Ignoring that British nationals aren't necessarily white.

Unfortunately because we're debating something that's a 'moral imperative' it does tie a lot into character. And you started it with your clickbait title lol

I think it's laughable that you think they aren't motivated by money why do so many also do private work on side of this is the case.

And soft skills that's laughable much of the NHS doesn't even have doctors or nurses.

Have to say that I was surprised at how many Brits are in Sudan. My native country had like under 10 people there. I know some were lifted by another EU country. But we are tiny I guess

I completely agree with this.
The FO said they were prioritising the evacuation of families with children, elderly or disabled adults from UK citizens first. So a single male would not have been at the front of the queue anyway.

And yet he didn’t consider not being able to return from a country that was in turmoil when he went for a holiday? He made a rash decision.

@StorminaStarmug
You surely don’t believe the majority of candidates not chosen for medicine would not be capable?! Most would be. Maybe we should give a bonus after working for 10 years? The doctors pensions are mostly paid by us. They are the country’s best in many ways. Perhaps if they were reduced, we could pay more. Jam today then! At the moment nothing is ever good enough. I do appreciate what most do but I’ve seen some very poor nursing and GPs in my time. Mostly when dealing with the elderly!

This!

This too!

Of course they are motivated by money. They are human. But they are predominantly motivated by saving lives. And why doesn't the NHS have enough doctors? Because junior doctor pay is bad and conditions are worse. That's why they leave.

Serving in the military is incomparable that working as a doctor. How many doctors get killed or seriously injured whilst working? How many have to spend months away on tours of duty leaving their families behind? How many suffer from PTSD as a direct result of their job? How many are thrown on the scrap heap once they retire? What’s the rate of suicide amongst doctors compared to service personnel?
Ironically, it’s service personnel who are currently risking their lives trying to evacuate people from Sudan, not doctors!

Exactly @Soontobe60 as as someone who has a family member currently serving I'm disgusted that the op thinks that a non-British citizen should be given priority when they were a complete spoon and went to a country against FO advice, just because they're a doctor.

I am worried sick for my family member. They are putting their life on the line. To do their job. Every bloody day.

8 to 1 ? whats the problem with a few going off abroad then?

How many would we have if we changed to your system of compulsory time in the NHS?

fwiw the UK isn't that far behind EU14 avg on Dr's, is HCP's such as Nurses we fall way behind on, also equipment.

Insurance schemes don't conjure up staff, esp given Nursing and AHPs need A levels and those sorts of students can cherry pick uni/employment.

@Doagooddeed
?? What do you not understand about the numbers? Applicants are 8 (or more) per single (1) training place. They go off after they are trained not before! Honestly!

Wd are average on nursing pay too. So it’s mostly the culture that’s wrong. Insurance schemes put more money into a health system. Everyone else we admire does this. We need to change. We cannot keep pretending this 75 year old model now works. It’s clearly outdated. As I said, even Labour want change. We need to see what insurance might look like.

There is a lot more to it than just academics. They are looking for a specific type of intellect and character. More than get through would be capable but not most. Some try several times and don't get through. That's more than bad luck. I think many junior doctors would prefer higher pay in the earlier years and a lower pension because many of them won't stay for the duration unless conditions change. You talk about what we pay to train doctors. The figures banded around are grossly inflated as the F1/F2s don't get the theoretical training time with consultants. We also pay university fees for students who do badly thought out degrees and never pay a penny back of that cost to the taxpayer. Surely you are aware of that.

Oh. I just read the whole thread and realised it's about Sudan nationals not other natinals left.
People have to plan for that too. When we visit our other countries, we know if shit hits the fan (which was risk in DH's not mine) only one might get lifted.
I am more tended to say that's just newspapers distracting with "NHS someone" from something. everyone travveling who is national of country they are travelling to shoul knwo not to expect rescue...
Like.... U turn on dropping some worker protection?

@Deadpalm
They are people who work here but are Sudanese and were visiting Sudan. Probably to visit relatives. Almost certainly against FO advice.

@StorminaStarmug Obviously some Med applicants are not suitable but you probably only need 1/2 to be suitable. Given plenty that are trained are not that great, we can afford to look further down the list. Yes. I think we can agree to negotiate on pensions. They won’t though. Cake and eat it. Plus look what overseas students are charged! That’s the going rate! Never mind nhs supervision!

What i meant was we can increase training places, to compensate... Honestly!! lol!

I believe we are well down on nurse/ahp numbers compared to France, Germany Italy.

Insurance is another form of tax, in our poorly paid workforce, how does that work?

We are an aging pop. less students wanting to work in Health, more competition for well paid jobs & based on what i see in a GP practice or a Hospital, an awful lot of the elderly.

Yeah I agree. The issues started before Eid. Week, two? I know because I though how shitty jit to properly ceasfire on Eid.
It just didn't click with me this is about Sudan nationals. Dummy me.
Dh and I visited his family in ME when Syria issues started combined with other issues in area where we were, we knew very well he will most likely have to make his own way while I can get lifted (we haven't registered martiage in my eu country yet, too short time). We made plans. He is not in NHS tho..... So wouldn't make good headlines

@Deadpalm The issue is being blown out of all proportion because of 3 letters. NHS. Our big Achilles heel!

As for flicking a very expensive switch and suddenly being able to train more doctors! Words fail me. A shortage of training supervisors in hospitals must be a concern let alone uni staff. We have more unis offering training but it’s never enough is it? Plus we train more at vast expense to go abroad and then plead for other doctors from less developed countries? How mad is that? Also uneconomic.

Basically a lot of these idiots who travelled there against foreign office advice are equivalent to similar to Brian who goes to Tenerife with no insurance and now needs airlifting out and has a go fund me.

Except these apparently educated idiots have gone there with no insurance(most insurance won't cover you going to sudan) to visit family despite knowing it can tank at any minute.

I'm not sure we want this level of stupid back in country.

now needs airlifting out and has a go fund me.

They're expecting other people to put their lives on the line to get them out

People who are paid a lot less than an NHS doctor.