What would you define as “poverty”, in your own opinion?

[DogLover20]

I appreciate this is a massively controversial topic and I apologise of this thread triggers any bad feelings.
I was listening to a conversation at work today and one of my colleagues was referring to a relative as “basically living in poverty” - it was a man in his 30s earning £30K a year for a low skilled job in London and being unable to afford to buy a house etc. She was referring to his DC as coming from a disadvantaged background. Whilst I agree this is not a high income for London, I think actual “poverty” is a different thing and it got me a bit angry to hear her say those words without thinking about it too much.
So, it made me wonder, what do you classify as actual poverty and a disadvantaged background?

I would say 30k in london with kids (if no other wage) could well be poverty

Poverty to me is,
no money,
no food,
no roof over my head
starving hungry
no car
homeless
anything that made me destitute

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-need-earn-live-comfortably-where/#:~:text=Workers%20now%20say%20they%20need,by%20recruitment%20firm%20Reed%20found.

To me it’s having less than £300 per month after all bills, to put a figure on it.

This.

Being on a lower wage than average and unable to buy a house doesn’t necessarily mean poverty. To me poverty means relying on a food bank to feed your family, going without dental treatment because you can’t even afford the basic nhs prices, not having heating on even though it’s freezing, working out if you can afford to buy sanitary products that month. (Been there, done all of that).

This. People complain about poverty without really having any idea about what it’s actually like. I would say we are fortunate in the UK that even people who are really poor will generally have access to food and health care .

Paying 1 bill in 4 and hoping that the 4th had bounced as well as you needed the money for food.

Actually scratch that that’s more being ‘skint’ than poverty, I agree with PP having none of the basics.

£30k with kids is a low wage so the DC are disadvantaged.

Poverty to me means not being able to eat properly, not being able to afford basic clothing, school uniform etc. Not being able to heat your home or afford to shower regularly. Not having enough money for essential travel etc

I think there’s absolute poverty which is destitution and relative poverty which I guess is living frugally and having nothing left over (compared to others) and everything in between.

If the relative is the only earner and has kids I imagine they do live a very basic existence.

Not being able to meet one or more of your basic needs. So you could have secure housing (council flat) say but be unable to afford an adequate diet, or you can afford to eat but not to keep your home a reasonable temperature, or to buy your children essential clothing.

You have to go to India to see real poverty . People in this country have a welfare state safety net .

Poverty is not being able to pay for essentials. It's relative because what one society sees as an essential another will deem a nice to have or luxury.

Poverty: not being able to have a secure roof over your head, no money to buy food and water and to afford basic necessities like clothes/shoes/soap/shampoo/school stuff for the kids or heating and electricity. No free access to medical care. So basically not having your basic needs met.

Stuff like not being able to buy a car/house/holidays/TV and so on are not essentials as far as I am concerned.

I link poverty to not being able afford to feed yourself.

Quite a few decades ago, when I was a young single mum I used to tell people that I preferred flipflops to shoes as they were more comfortable. I wore them throughout winter. Truth was that I couldn't afford to buy myself shoes. To me, that was poverty. It makes me incredibly sad to know that many people in Britain are now in even worse situations than I was back then.

There's not having much money after bills & food and then there's poverty, poverty to me is not being able to pay your bills or eat or clothe yourself

Children can be disadvantaged without living in absolute poverty- eg, have a home, (be that council, privately rented etc) enough money, just, for clothes and okay food and for the heating to be on etc but never have any money for any kind of ‘extras’ that IMO make a positive difference to a child’s life- I’m NOT talking expensive holidays and the latest gadgets, but a trip to the seaside, or a museum (and before people say they’re free, maybe travel to them is prohibitive in terms of cost), attending a sports club, buying a book to read etc. To me that is disadvantaged. There are plenty of children living like this- the basics are ok, anything extra isn’t possible at all. That’s the reality for many, alongside no back up or cushion if things go wrong.

Then there are children living in what I would call absolute poverty as described by some PP Eg clothes not suitable/too small etc, not enough adequate food, little to no heating etc.

Neither is acceptable, but obviously poverty is worse than disadvantage. Hope I’ve made sense.

But if you're on a low wage you get UC to top them up, especially with children, including help with housing costs, no council tax etc.

Poverty is living in unstable and unsuitable conditions, unable to afford heating and in debt with energy bills, few personal possessions and none of any value, being forced to eat very little and live in old and second hand clothes.

The accepted meaning of the word ‘poverty’ in the U.K. has changed enormously over the last few decades. In the days before the minimum wage & tax credits it used to mean having nowhere to live & being unable to afford food, clothes etc, never mind cars, holidays, gadgets, designer labels etc.

Now, with generous welfare benefits for those with children or who can get a diagnosis of illness or disability, a £10.42 /hr minimum wage, ‘poverty’ appears to mean used cars instead of new, holidays in the U.K. rather than Spain and last year’s iPhone.

Yabu to start a thread with the implicit intention of minimising the wage/stagflation crisis that people in the UK are currently facing.

I've no doubt you'll get a variety of replies. Some of them will be along the lines of "poverty means destitution" and you can crawl back to where you came from safe in the knowledge that millions of mothers heading up households with dependent children (ie the target demographic of this site) will read such replies, internalise then and (you hope) adjust their expectations re wages accordingly.

But. People know how much money they have. People know how much things cost. People know that if they're earning £30,000 and a house costs £300,000 and they pay £300 income tax and £240 national insurance and £150 council tax every sodding month while their utility bills rise 200% and their food bills rise 75% while their wages rise 5%, that something is not right.

And it doesn't matter how many threads you start about £30k being loads of money, because people on low wages do their sums. They do their sums better than you. They've been doing them for years. And they know what doesn't add up.

Poverty to me is worrying about how to feed yourself and your family, worry about paying bills, unsecure housing, debt....basically not being able to do anything without worrying about money.

Poverty no money no food no nothing.
Borderline might be basic food house and just making the bills

It's an interesting debate. On paper someone may think we are in poverty due to our low income. However being in social housing, no care and no commute costs, we actually manage ok. Hardly rolling in it but pay the bills, have enough food, kids do a couple of aftet school activities, days out in the school holidays etc. However if we had high rent costs, then we could easily be in poverty and struggle to pay the bills. Its all relative. You def can't go by income alone.