What would you define as “poverty”, in your own opinion?

[DogLover20]

I appreciate this is a massively controversial topic and I apologise of this thread triggers any bad feelings.
I was listening to a conversation at work today and one of my colleagues was referring to a relative as “basically living in poverty” - it was a man in his 30s earning £30K a year for a low skilled job in London and being unable to afford to buy a house etc. She was referring to his DC as coming from a disadvantaged background. Whilst I agree this is not a high income for London, I think actual “poverty” is a different thing and it got me a bit angry to hear her say those words without thinking about it too much.
So, it made me wonder, what do you classify as actual poverty and a disadvantaged background?

And how do a family in poverty who may be living in temporary housing, unable to afford gas, or have poor education about food cook the rice and lentils? How do they season them? And make them appealing? Or should they just be chomping down on rice and lentils raw every morning?

The fact is that there are many reasons for poverty. And even if it is due to parents being financially illiterate or simply irresponsible, that does not negate the fact that the children are living in poverty.

I think some people set the bar very high. Yes, no one in this country lives like the poorest person in India or Africa. But should that be our standard? It’s ok for people to live in mouldy, overcrowded homes because it is a roof over their head? It’s ok for children to ever eat rice and lentils because that’s cheap?
to me, people who are socially excluded because they cannot afford to take part are poor. Child cannot go on school trip (not £££ skiing trip, but normal term time trips)? That’s poor. Cannot afford to attend a birthday party? That’s poor. Always having to wear hand-me-downs and never being able to choose something you like? That is poor. Not being able to go to the farm or library because can’t afford the bus…this all can have a big impact on a child’s self confidence, friendships and life experience.
also, as a grown up, living pay check to pay check - not being able to save anything for emergencies
that’s poor to me . Not destitute. Not Africa poor. But poor for this country.

Its fairly obvious that nowadays for ordinary families to have any reasonable standard of living, two parents need to earn. Single parents, unless they are in highly paid jobs have a tough time, especially when the NRP contributes the bare minimum, or nothing.

Exorbitant private rents, location, a lack of social housing, increased expectations about ‘necessities’, expensive debt. Disability and illness may also mean lower incomes. All those are factors.

Poverty is the insecurity of not knowing week to week whether you will have enough to eat, enough to be warm, be able to stay in your home, be able to fix things that break. Poverty is about being on a knife edge all the time, living hand to mouth, praying it doesn’t all come tumbling down, because you’ve already made all the compromises, sold all the valuables, budgeted only for basics, and if your kid loses his PE kit there won’t be anything to replace it with.

I'm seeing a lot of definitions of poverty which is interesting to say the least.

If you're able to pay all the bills, you can afford food but you have nothing left until your next pay day; that's not poverty to me. I would class that as "getting by" or "making ends meet".

Poverty to me is not being able to even afford food and other basic necessities in life.

Also - to the lady who was only wearing flip flops - that has been an eye opener to me.
i see a fair amount of people wearing flip flops (mainly people of immigrant background)and always assumed that’s because people may be used to it from their home country, not that they couldn’t afford shoes 😥

I would see that as destitution rather than poverty.

It’s not a race to the bottom. The UK is still a relatively wealthy country and there is no excuse for the levels of poverty it currently has.

Inadequate access to healthy food is food poverty. You might have enough calories but you can’t afford to ensure your family eats healthily.

Unsafe housing, not in adequate repair (eg mouldy with a landlord who refuses to fix it) and with insufficient space (eg teens of opposite genders or adults and teens sharing a bedroom) is housing poverty. You might have a roof over your head but it’s inadequate.

insecure, underpaid employment is job poverty - you might in theory (and for Tory stats purposes) be employed but you have no certainty on income one week to the next.

A lot of people are being forced to live this way in the UK with no end in sight. The fact that there are people in even worse situations doesn’t mean they are not in poverty.

Aren't these all luxuries though?

"No car, no holidays, no pension, no savings, no sky packages, no Costa Coffees, no takeaways, so on and so on."

You have Netflix etc for entertainment. Can go to the park for free. Go to theatres and museum for low cost (you would need to pay for transport).

But why are kids going to school hungry? Rice and lentils for a family of 4 comes to about £6 a week.
Part of the problem here is that we have some funny ideas of what is a need.
Great. So they'll be eating that for dinner? Or lunch and dinner? Or breakfast lunch and dinner?

And they'll be cooking that how? Many people living in poverty don't have a proper cooker - they're in temporary accommodation. You know that it's not allowed to bring single jobs into the Travelodge (or similar, where many are housed)? Or do you expect them to boil their rice and lentils in the kettle?

And for those with the luxury to still be living in a home, how exactly do you suggest they cook it? As in that meal costs £6 according to you, but you've not factored in pots and pans, a working stove and the electricity/gas costs.

But well done for knowing it all better. Well done for suggesting that poor people shouldn't have vegetables. Or fruit. They just need rice and lentils. Awesome. You've solved the problem of food insecurity in poverty right there. Gold star. And if you think that sounds patronising, consider it's not a patch on your answer.

And I say all that as someone who actually likes rice and lentils!

*hobs
*..that week-long meal costs £6..

This.

You can definitively say a salary excludes you from poverty as £30K per annum won’t go far if you have to pay £2000 per month rent or mortgage which isn’t unusual in London.

*Can’t

@DivorcingEU

Well done for suggesting that poor people shouldn't have vegetables. Or fruit.

Or cheese, milk, yoghurt, eggs, meat, bread… and of COURSE NOT any small treat such as chocolate or biscuits or crisps.

The joke (sad joke) of it is, someone who can only afford to feed their child rice and lentils and nothing else, no seasoning or sides or anything with it, is also living in poverty. Just because they aren’t starving to death doesn’t mean they’re not in poverty when they can’t even meet their child’s basic nutritional needs.

Rice and lentils day after day, week after week, month after month is not a healthy diet. It will stop you starving to death, but no one should be promoting this kind of diet as adequate.

I'd say there's two kinds of poverty in this country.

Absolute poverty - unable to afford the essentials (rent, food, heating, clothing etc).

Relative poverty - poor compared to those who surround you. Can't go for a coffee with your friends, can't take the kids to the zoo, can buy clothes but only second-hand or cheap and short-lasting. You're not destitute, but miss out on life experiences and also on social networks. This is a very real kind of poverty.

Of course "essentials" are not easily defined. Smartphone? Life management is becoming tied to phones for banking, infomration etc. as well as just communication and surfing the web. Car? Maybe you need one to work if you're in a rural area.

I agree with others than absolute poverty in this country rarely comes close to what people in other countries may suffer, and when people starve to death here it is likely to be linked to mental health or other issues that prevent them getting help.

Life is very difficult these days without a smartphone or tablet.

To me, poverty means, as a result of lack of money- not having a suitable home, not having access to healthcare when you need it, not having adequate food, not having access to education, not having adequate clothing and heating. In this country, no-one SHOULD be in poverty- that's what the welfare state should ensure.

Being disadvantaged is a relative thing. To me it means having less choice and fewer opportunities than most people. This can be due to lack of money or other factors.

Part of the problem here is that we have some funny ideas of what is a need.
To quote the equality trust: The wealth of the UK’s billionaires has skyrocketed by over 1000% between 1990 and 2022, ballooning by around £600bn. But yes, a country that creates and indulges billionaires should totally expect parents to be counting out lentils for their kids because that meets their needs.

I think poverty is not earning enough money to cover your basics. Food, rent, bills, clothes, etc. So poverty wages are any that need 'topping up' with benefits.

Not being able to afford the basics necessities is abject poverty.

Having very little after the basics is poverty.

I know this will offend people but hearing about how hard other people and poverty is so tedious. Yes I get it people are poor, but why do they have to shout about it all day everywhere.

£300 a month...what 'spending money'? That's not poverty to me.

Yes I ballsed that up hence my follow up post! I meant 300 left for ‘non letter’ bills so good, travel, clothes, etc but realised that’s more ‘skint’ than poverty