What would you define as “poverty”, in your own opinion?

[DogLover20]

I appreciate this is a massively controversial topic and I apologise of this thread triggers any bad feelings.
I was listening to a conversation at work today and one of my colleagues was referring to a relative as “basically living in poverty” - it was a man in his 30s earning £30K a year for a low skilled job in London and being unable to afford to buy a house etc. She was referring to his DC as coming from a disadvantaged background. Whilst I agree this is not a high income for London, I think actual “poverty” is a different thing and it got me a bit angry to hear her say those words without thinking about it too much.
So, it made me wonder, what do you classify as actual poverty and a disadvantaged background?

We saw real poverty in Venezuela in the late 90’s. It’s much worse now.

Obviously there’s a safety net here but people fall through the cracks. I used to help a group feeding people.

I guess it depends how many dc and what your expenses are? If you’ve got no mortgage, no student loan, no childcare, it’s not necessarily that much of a low income.

i know a couple teaching Assistant and factory worker and for a while teaching assistant wasnt in work (was training) and husband was working ote to get around 20k per year, they only got UC for college so she could get qualified. But they survived and not in poverty. They had 1dc and no student loans, no mortgage. Those expenses add up

That's a distraction though.

While we are arguing about what poverty is we are neglecting to hold to account the people responsible for the economic circumstance the UK is currently in. Which is dire. Wherever you come from and whatever your background is.

Money is worth less, wages are worth less and everything costs more than 12 months ago. More again than 18 months ago.

Yes there are people in Moldova (for eg) who struggle more. There are also people in Moldova (for eg) who struggle less.

But this is not what we should be concerning ourselves with.

What we should be concerning ourselves with is how in the UK a typical salaried employee doing the same job as they did two years ago is falling further down the scale of poverty as measured by access to goods and services and ability to meaningfully participate in activities that are generally socially recognised as being necessary for good mental and social health and wellbeing.

Not having everything you need. Not want but need.

Food / warmth / shelter / clothing / shoes

Yes, I agree with this. And not being able to afford to give your children even little treats. Worrying about Pudsey Bear Day as you can't give your children the £2 each they need and you know they will be asked where their money is at school. Walking a long way carrying a heavy shopping bag because you can't afford the bus fair and you went to the cheapest supermarket not the nearest one.

A long term state of lacking the funds to reliably meet your essential needs, for adequate housing, nutrition and warmth. And/or lacking the means to participate fully in your society, and engage in a minimal level of pleasurable or stimulating activity necessary to maintain wellbeing.

I would say someone lived in poverty If they couldn't afford the basics of food, shelter, clothing etc.

Exactly this

Living in a temp homeless accommodation

Living somewhere very damp or very overcrowded and not being able to move

Ever using a food bank

Not getting dental treatment/getting extractions as you can't afford treatment to save teeth

Not being able to replace a winter coat with rips, winter boots with holes, basic clothes that are permastained or frayed.

Not being able to afford to wash sheets/towels etc regularly

Wearing clothes for a week to reduce laundry

Never being able to afford to go to a cafe

Only being able to afford to go out for a drink/socialising/cinema etc twice a year or less

Not going abroad for several years/having no passport

Walking for miles to save a bus fare

Clothes/electrical/baby equipment/furniture all second hand.

No flooring in rooms

Broken furniture not replaced

Lack of kitchen equipment

Never getting a hair cut/nails/salon treatment

NHS glasses

Having to use pawn shops

Being in debt for basic bills/utilities regularly

Not enough beds/duvets for everyone

Rooms with no heating

Going without basic toiletries eg no toothpaste, no loo roll, using bar soap as shampoo, no conditioner, no razors, etc

Being on a low income or basic benefits, particularly single people of working age.
Being unable to afford to decorate own home, difficulty paying fuel bills, eating basic food or having to use food banks.
Or being a child of parents who choose not to work, low aspirations and making poor choices in life.
For example making unwise decisions like having children out-with marriage or in an unstable partnership. (Yes, I’m guilty of this).
My parents made rubbish decisions and as a result lived lives of relative poverty, their health and welfare suffered.
Inequality and not being able to participate in society. Lots of relationship and disharmony arising from mental health problems, debt, unemployment, being a lone parent etc.
List goes on really but it’s not all bad.
If I had my time again I’d make different choices, so right now I’m poor but happy and my kids are well fed, clothed and happy. I own my car outright. I live in a new council house with decent neighbours. I’m a carer now for my ageing parent but before that, choose to be a stay at home mum on benefits as works too draining I find with sole responsibility for two young kids.
So we have to forego things like birthday parties, holidays, home ownership, eating out at nice restaurants. I’m not part of a friendship group as I can’t afford to participate in nights out etc.
My eldest is at university, got straight A’s but I think she is aspirational and didn’t like my side of the family being poor, however, we were the ones who taught her her specialist subject.

Poor people can be quite liberated really! Think of writers, actors and artists. I guess my point is life is fluid, poverty doesn’t always last though the chances are, it does affect the next generation.
Oh and Catholics or large families often suffer poverty.

To me it’s being afraid when a bill comes in. Not being inconvenienced, not having to do without treats, but actual fear of how to pay.

I’m very fortunate now and am a high earner and can have holidays and buy little luxuries with my disposable income. There was a time however, living in a bedsit in my early 20s, when I chose whether buy a tin of meatballs or feed the electricity meter with my last pound coin.

I remember £20 being a huge amount of money and playing the game of seeing how much I could exceed my overdraft by to try and pay for things. I remember saving the bank, Orange Mobile and MasterCard as DO NOT ANSWER in my
phone. I remember selling my things to scrape by. Working a second job.

I did have a roof over my head though, and I didn’t go hungry much thanks to Sainsbury’s Basics. That’s my closest to poverty - wildly rich compared to some in this world and my god it’s shaped my relationship with money now! I still struggle to buy new things and automatically opt for second hand or broken things I can repair myself. I bought brand new sheets and a duvet cover for the first time last year, rather than second hand on eBay, and it felt momentous!

As a wise (also broke, at the time) friend told me - money doesn’t buy you happiness, but being poor is bloody miserable.

My view is skewed by having worked for an aid charity for a lot of years and having seen developing world poverty...kids living on the streets, families who've not eaten for days or people dying of preventable diseases.

The poverty we have in the West is a very different thing but I think it's probably best described as not being able to have one of several things; access to food and clean water supply, a safe and secure home etc etc. So if you're living in unstable or unsafe accommodation or can't afford to eat or feed your children, that's definitely how I'd describe poverty.

I would say that 30k in London and with kids could well be classed as poverty. In fact I'm not sure how anyone would do it!

I think it really does show the different ideas about poverty when certain things are conflated - to me ‘not holidaying abroad’ isn’t poverty, and it’s so odd to see it on the same list as ‘not enough bedding for everyone.’ Maybe just my experience, but foreign holidays are an expensive luxury, not a basic need.

£20k and under is poor.

Absolute poverty is under £15k
Let's not forget the government say an unemployed adult can exist on £343 a month on Universal Credit. That's for food, electric, gas, council tax, internet etc.

Realistically, I'm in absolute poverty.
Unemployed and on Universal Credit etc. We get a little over £1200 a month.

From that:
Rent
Council tax
Gas
Electric
Internet
Mobile
Netflix for me
Disney+ for the kid
Food

No car, no holidays, no pension, no savings, no sky packages, no Costa Coffees, no takeaways, so on and so on.

pretty miserable really, but we exist, just about.

Asking posters to define poverty when googling will give the answer is a distraction.

If you want to make a real difference, Vote the tories out at the next election.

Amen to that

It might not give enough for food and bills etc. if you're subject to the benefits cap, though, or if your rent isn't covered by local housing allowance, or if you have three or more children, or have to pay commuting costs out of it, or other situations.

I think there is a difference between poverty and disadvantage.

To me poverty is lacking food/shelter/warmth/clothing/education/healthcare. I don’t think measure os relative poverty are helpful. There will be people living in absolute poverty which will be hidden in the figures. I think more precise measures would provide more information and hopefully better targeted support.

If you have kids, poverty is being entitled to free school meals.

I would define poverty as anyone who has a negative balance sheet (i.e. their debts exceed their assets), who have insecure accomodation (i.e. are renting because they can't afford to buy rather than by choice) or anyone who struggle to afford basic things like good internet, heating and food. Also anyone who uses single ply toilet paper.

Housing insecurity. Going to work not knowing where you'll be sleeping that night.

If you have kids and work, poverty is not being entitled to school meals, because despite earning over 16k the majority of my wage goes on housing and debt left by ex.
I get no housing support. I think poverty can sometimes be felt a lot more by those single parents who work.

I've lived somewhere for a number of years where extreme poverty exists, people live in slums, can't afford medical care so live with appalling health, entire family sleeps in same "room", don't eat every day, can't wash frequently, don't have running water etc.

But for fuck's sake. That doesn't mean that there aren't people seriously suffering in the UK (and other Western countries). Trying to define the level of suffering that qualifies as poverty, and splitting hairs about it is quite honestly sick.

There are children going to school hungry. There are parents (often the mothers) who aren't eating so their children get something.

There are working people using food banks. You can't just "turn up for free food"! You actually have to be suffering in order to be eligible!

Instead of trying to figure out whether people who are living with next to no financial capacity to do much other than survive are actually just lazy, lying, incompetent scroungers, why not try and figure out what is needed so that no child goes hungry in our country? What about a plan to help people not need food banks! The fact they even exist is a sign of failure at a state level!

Nobody wants to be "poor". Nobody wants to be using food banks. Nobody wants their child Togo hungry and nobody actually wants to go cold or hungry themselves!

My suggestion for a plan out of this would be to replace our multimillionaire leaders with single mothers who currently are going without food in order that their child(ren) eat. I BET they could get government finances ship shape in no time. They're experts in budgeting.

Many would say my brother lives in poverty.
He has £12 a week after rent/bills, he buys a bag of potatoes, tub of margarine, block of cheese, loaf of cheapest white bread. He spends whatever is left on fags and weed. He’s just had a rent rise so after next month will have -£3 a week for food.
I help him where I can, but he won’t help himself so it’s a tricky one. He could get more benefits if the doctor signs him off. He could get a job again. He could quit smoking. So is he choosing to live in poverty? I don’t know.
But, he’s not in poverty compared to some of the families I’ve seen when travelling in my younger years.

But why are kids going to school hungry? Rice and lentils for a family of 4 comes to about £6 a week.
Part of the problem here is that we have some funny ideas of what is a need.