What would you define as “poverty”, in your own opinion?

[DogLover20]

I appreciate this is a massively controversial topic and I apologise of this thread triggers any bad feelings.
I was listening to a conversation at work today and one of my colleagues was referring to a relative as “basically living in poverty” - it was a man in his 30s earning £30K a year for a low skilled job in London and being unable to afford to buy a house etc. She was referring to his DC as coming from a disadvantaged background. Whilst I agree this is not a high income for London, I think actual “poverty” is a different thing and it got me a bit angry to hear her say those words without thinking about it too much.
So, it made me wonder, what do you classify as actual poverty and a disadvantaged background?

It is all relative, isn't it. This is what I would call it

In the uk, you dont need all of these, just some

badly off-
cant afford a new coat when the zip breaks on the old one
cant afford an evening out
family holiday is a local campsite, saved up for very hard
no alcohol, no cinema, no washing machine, use local laundrette
shopping is mostly own brands, bottom of the range cheap food, cleaning products and toiletries

poverty -
not being able to afford to replace worn out shoes
only heating your home if it goes below freezing
walking more than 10 miles a week extra because you dont have bus fare
no internet
intermittent electricity supply due to financial reasons

severe poverty-
no bed
no reliable roof over your head
severe overcrowding, 2 or more people sleeping in each room including kitchen
eating cheaply, carrots, bananas, rice, pasta,

There is not overall food poverty in UK, there is free limitless food, if you cn get to it - of course, in some areas it is hard to reach but noone is short of food.

In some other countries, severe poverty means no access to drinking water, sanitation, medical care or reliable food - all of which we have in the UK

Yep. That's why we have a problem with wages in this country.

That was to @Hotvimto3

I would say I grew up in poverty. No food, no toiletries, often no heating, sometimes no light. Wearing scruffy/dirty, poorly fitting, and weather inappropriate clothing due to a lack of appropriate things. Things like that. It’s desperate.

Many people I know say they’re really skint/live in poverty but in fact they are just a bit poor/not wealthy. Of course I’m not putting their struggle down, but to me if I’m sitting in a warm clean house with enough food (even if it’s ‘boring’ food) to feed me and my kids and all the bills paid, then I don’t really see myself as poor.

But of course I do agree it’s relative. In other countries people might die through lack of access to medical care and basics like water. We were often cold and hungry and desperately unhappy but survived. So I suppose what’s poverty in Britain might not be ‘as bad’ as the extreme poverty in some developing countries.

Well there are obviously differences between absolute and relative poverty.

I think some conversations where people talk about money are more about the way having little makes them feel rather than the practicalities of budgeting on a non existent budget.

I think it's more about the fact that they feel less than those around them. That they feel embarrassed to not be able to invite people over. They don't feel like they are in the club. The feelings of loneliness and low self esteem. The feelings of hopelessness. Always being the one looking in.

Those feelings can happen whether you have 10p in the bank or a fair bit more. When someone is doing all they can and it is not enough to not impact their mental health then it might make sense that they see themselves as poor.

I'd agree with this. I dont think you need to be unable to meet any if the basic needs to be in poverty. I think being unable to meet one is enough..

Less than seven meals a week? So you wouldn’t consider somebody who could only afford to eat one meal a day to be living in poverty?

I dunno, but it's an interesting question. Poverty to me is the lack of meeting the very basic requirements of sustaining life in the longer term (usually due to the lack of money, but sometimes it's coupled with poor education, poor health, poor infrastructure, poor childhood, etc etc).

People who earn a low wage but are secure in the knowledge that they will have all of life's basic requirements met daily for the foreseeable future aren't living in poverty, but anything could tip the balance. Someone who is impoverished is, imo, living desperately with not many choices/options available to them to improve their situation to a sustainable, long term, level. That must be incredibly stressful because, for them, it's not easy to see a way out of their current circumstance. Not until a reasonable option/choice presents itself to them anyway. What is 'reasonable' definitely depends on the society they grew up in. In somewhere like China, it's common to send kids to live with grandparents to survive working in the city. Here, not really an option we would consider.

I think it depends really.

I live in a 3rd world country and see poverty every day. People rummaging through bins for food and making a shelter for a home.

I think in a 1st world country where there is help at hand, poverty means something very different.

I grew up in a FSM household and I'm good at making money stretch.
I'd regard myself as poor if:

I couldn't feed myself & ds breakfast, lunch & supper
I couldn't clothe myself and DS warmly, and ds with the appropriate basic school uniform
I couldn't keep our home warm enough to maintain our health
I couldn't provide ds with a bike, books and the option to do one activity - swimming or similar, once a week.
Whatever basic transport is necessary to make life work.

I get what everyone is saying re lack of money means lack of basic necessities, but poverty also means loneliness and exclusion from mainstream society, not just for the adults but their children too. No soft play, no clubs, no school trips, no computers to do school work. Exclusion for the adults who cannot afford to access places where they could mix with others and make new friends.

Poverty is more than a low wage, more than having nothing left over at the end of the month. To me poverty means going without what most would consider basic necessities. Having to rely on food banks. Being unable to pay your bills on time. Not putting the heating on. Holes in your shoes. No money to catch the bus. Poverty is being hungry, cold and permanently worried about money.

Maybe I just have a different view as I've worked in the charity sector ith vulnerable people. Poverty doesn't just mean absolute destitution to me in the way many seem to be describing.

I think it's not being able to afford the basics all of the time. Going without basics and missing out on stuff due to lack of money. I know we could all claim we miss out due to lack of money! I'm missing out on a holiday around the world die to lack of money! mean things like school trips or visiting family.

The poster who talks about flip flops makes a good point. Shoes and clothing that doesn't suit a season is a conspicuous sign of poverty. Children in shorts in winter, no coat, socks and sliders, tracksuits. Clothing is not so class based these days but wearing something really inappropriate that must mean you are cold as hell, yes, that's poverty. Nobody chooses to be cold

I agree with your overall point but until about 50 years ago all boys of all classes wore shorts at primary school. Boys in the royal family still wear shorts until they are eight. Having said that DS's teacher once took me aside and asked why he was wearing shorts in January (he refused to wear trousers because they were 'too hot'!).

I remember there was a poster on here who was describing how she had to wait till the end of the month to be able to afford a new pair of shoes to replace her single broken pair of shoes. She was very resistant to the idea that she was poor, she thought it was normal to have to budget for small but unexpected essentials. I had an ONS household survey a couple of years ago and one of the questions was 'Could you afford £800 to fix your boiler unexpectedly?' I thought that was an interesting level of poverty, because you could maybe afford all your bills but if something unexpectedly expensive happened how well could you cope with that?

This exactly

The PPs who describe it as only if you’re homeless and also starving are actually describing extreme poverty (and are also bonkers).

My ex described his mother once having to put food back at the supermarket as she had the exact money but had made a mistake, and these things were already the very cheapest things she could. This was of course a very public confirmation of poverty which everyone saw. Wanting to buy meat paste but not having money. That's poverty in the UK.

In a first world country: Always having to buy the cheapest of everything. Never having any small luxuries or treats. Lying awake at night worrying about money when you hardly spend anything. Being cold all the time. Being hungry not through choice. Being homeless or living in temporary accommodation.

I don't think of not being able to afford a holiday or home improvements or a car or hobbies or beauty treatments as poverty because I've often been in that position. Infact still am to a large extent!

This winter I've been cold an awful lot of the time but can still afford the luxury of going to a coffee shop and spending a few quid on coffees to be able to work when desperate. I fully understand there's a vast chasm between feeling the pinch and actual poverty.

Poverty can be measured in two ways - absolute or relative.

Absolute poverty imo:
No sanitation
No immediate access to clean, running water (have walk for this rather than in house/hut)
No electricity or gas supply
No/limited education due to cultural, familial/financial(eg. have to work the land) political reasons
Young pregnancy age 18 and below
One meal or less per day
Overcrowding in home - eg. One room for whole family
Jobless or subsistence farming
Homeless
One outfit, no shoes/one pair of shoes
No access/extremely limited access to basic health care
Possible violent crime, burglary and theft.

Relative poverty (UK)
Gas and electric running into significant debt
No washing machine
Hot water switched off due to costs/debt
One -two light bulbs in home
No/little high school education
Functionally illiterate/poor literacy levels.
Young pregnancy 18 or below
One meal to two meals per day - eg. Baked beans on toast and a cup of tea.
Crucial DIY needed and or upkeep of decor but unaffordable - provident loans taken out
Lack of furniture
Overcrowding - eg. 6 or more people of different generations living in small 3 bed.
Chronic medical conditions, especially in relatively young - eg. asthma, type 2 diabetes, arthritis.
Social exclusion and isolation due to cost involved - eg. cinema, train journey to London, trips to wildlife parks, galleries, sporting events, theatre, holidays... experiences overall... lower cultural collateral equals lower socio-economic outcomes.
Limited clothing, no winter coat.
Crime - shoplifting, petty theft.
Poor health care (eg. No medical insurance (US)
Unable to maintain a healthy lifestyle due to socio-economic background/illiteracy.
Financially illiterate.
Unskilled labour and no job.
Low skilled and semi/rurally based.
Mouldy, damp living conditions.

It's not always that simple. I'm on a low wage oh can't work due to disability we do get some help but have a mortgage so no help with housing costs. We get a 25% reduction in council tax so still have to pay the majority of that.

The min wage needed to go to that, I live off it
Affording a mortgage/rent plus everything else by yourself on min wage.. it's not easy

I'd suggest this is a good starting point:

https://www.jrf.org.uk/about-us/what-is-poverty

Also this:

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/households-below-minimum-income-standard-2008-21

Honestly, there are people who are paid to think about and research these things. You don't have to go around pulling ideas out of your arse.

I am not from UK and the term poverty can get very confusing.
For example someone living in 3 bed house so kids have own bedrooms but says they live in poverty. That's not poverty in my books. I and many around me grew up sharing room until one left with parents in living room on foldout/second bedroom. But we always had full fridge because of that. Extra space is luxury when people don't have money for basics because of it. Just one example.

I do agree with pp that meaning of the word has changed and imho it's not helpful how people use it now.