School fees have risen by 19% in the space of 12 months

[Findingfactsaboutfees]

AIBU to think this is outrageous ?! Fees are exorbitant anyhow and in the last 12 months we have had an increase of 19% by way of 2 increases in a 12 month period. Fees per year for the senior school are £16690 per year and do not include state of the art facilities as other local schools do. The junior school fees aren't much less either! This is a school in the north of England. If you are paying for education, where are you based and how much do you pay? I wonder whether it is comparable.

Private education will only be for the ultra-rich if fees continue to rise at the rate that they are. It is unsustainable for most working professionals who are comfortable but not ultra-wealthy! Parents locally have tried to take their children out but can't as there are no state school places to be had within a 12 mile radius. The only other option is home schooling which isn't possible when the parents are working full time. We're not yet at the point where we are thinking of taking our child out of school but hearing the plight of those who are in the process of trying to is worrying. I've always been a labour voter but if they do go ahead with the introduction of VAT, I fear it's going to get even worse.

@hillaryswankfan nothing deflated my point. I pointed out that most families couldn’t afford private school on £100k, the very figure that you were banding about.

I didn’t say that it harmed his chances, but you don’t have any evidence that it benefited him. If I’d have planned to send him to grammar I would have sent him to a stand alone prep that actually prepares for the 11 plus. You wanted to use it as an example
of me trying to buy my way into the grammar and you are wrong. That is not why he went to prep.

It’s interesting that you believe that your income breakdowns prove your point and then deny that the ISC survey proves anything.

Kids leave private schools and join the state system at a cost to all.
Worst hit will be middle earners. Someone will need to foot the bill.

What bill?

If per pupil funding stays the same, and every private school place in the country shifts to the state sector over the next decade (highly unlikely, but let's roll with the thought experiment), what would the overall schools budget be in 2033 relative to today?

Ps @Blossomtoes
i am a Labour voter
My 3 kids have left private school now but I will not be voting labour this time around.
Why

1. Their policy on womens rights
2. They will further ruin this country with stupid ideas about private school.

Most of the parents at our private school, ( boarding £44,000, just mentioning in case you say it’s not really populated by top earners ) were also Labour voters, non Brexit. Arty forward thinking types.

After a secret ballot not one will be voting Labour.
That’s a lot of lost votes if we are anything to go by.

Read @Noontimes independent assessment of Starmers idea about tax on Private schools.
Its all there
Post today at 6:30 ish

@DrPrunesquallor You re really blind to the facts already addressed here."

I'm literally the only one who has given actual facts about the incomes and wealth of households that eduate their children and there was one Guardian article about students in private schools having more special arrangements for exams than state schools, The data I have consitently been using is from the UCL Institute of Education studies, it is independent.

The article you impored people to read is not independent, it was commissioned by the Independent Schools Council ( its methodology is also pretty poor only looking at 21 case study schools and then an even smaller group and extrapollating the data). IT also relied on survey data from these schools to say what would happen if the VAT fee was introduced, hardly a reliable source. It has also been proved incorrect as fees have increased by about 20% in total since 2017/18 school year when it was conducted and none of the impacts have been shown.

So please don't cling to that article as evidence that there will be a mass exodous from private schools. Just look at the data on the earnings and wealth of the households from which the vast majority of the students studying at them come from.

Why should anyone care?
Private education is a choice. There is an alternative.

Maybe the UK should do something radical and do away with private schools.
If everyone has to go to a state school maybe they'll all be adequately funded.

"@DrPrunesquallor Read @Noontimesindependent assessment of Starmers idea about tax on Private schools."

As it was commissioned and conducted in 2018 it can't have been Starmer's idea can it.

You are really, really struggling now and it's funny.

It’s not enough to make a ha’pporth of difference @DrPrunesquallor. And I really struggle to believe any erstwhile Labour voter would decide to vote Tory after the shitshow of the last 13 years.

By the way, saying they know what a woman is hasn’t made them treat us very well, has it?

I think @DrPrunesquallor is one of the posters who says "I used to be Labour but..." but never ever really was.

I do like that they already mentioned the thing about women. It has been a while since the " At least the Tories know what a women is" has been brought into this thread.

Isn't it more likely that those swing voters are in the groups who either favour the policy, favour changes to the requirements for private schools so that they would have to do more to earn their exemptions, or don't know/don't care, than those who oppose the policy?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-uk-private-schoold-be-exempt-from-tax

The age demographics are very interesting here.

DrPrunesquallor

😂That post is hysterical. I think we can safely say the numbers of Labour voters with kids in private school will be tiny.

How dare you call me a liar.
As ever
To abuse and downgrade someone’s comments.

My parents were working class Irish Catholic immigrants who instilled education and hard work were everything.
They voted Labour all their lives and I followed suit because I truly believed they were the right thing for this country.
They simply aren’t any more.
If a party comes up and supports democracy and woman's rights I will vote for them instead.

I think you have confused 'independent' with 'Independent Schools Council', which is a lobby group/membership organisation for independent schools. Not independent of the process.

It's a report from 2018, so it predates the Starmer proposals by some years. I already pointed out that one of the significant flaws in the analysis of that report is that, in its analysis of the societal costs, it cites the 'capacity pressures most state schools are already facing.'

However, 5 years on, we now know that the state school population are dropping, and that 'capacity pressures' are not a built in feature of a system that is forecast to shed more pupils over the next decade than the entire private school population.

Others have pointed out some of the methodological flaws (even the report notes some of its limitations) and the challenges in relying so much drawn from voluntary reporting by headteachers and bursars.

However all of that pales into it's irrelevance in terms of estimating the wider societal costs when it nowhere reflects the state school population modelling data that we now have available, and where we are already seeing impacts as the peak year passes through the system.

So let's pose that question again. With the information we have now, and making the assumptions I set out above, how much would the overall education budget need to rise or fall to accommodate that shift in pupil numbers?

Obviously you know this because you know so many of them.

I don’t need to. Anybody with a brain knows the party who uses and advocates private education and healthcare is the Tory party. Hence them not caring about what happens to the state versions of either.

🤣🤣🤣
think I know out what the ISC is.

Are you serious?

This is one of the main reasons why Labour gets a bad rap.

This immense bottomless pit of need that you see in the UK tends to be associated with Labour because of mentality like yours.

Nobody owes you a living. Absolutely nobody.

Thats lesson #1

And until you can become a productive, net tax payer in the UK your "arguments" are basically empty because you drive away the people that are willing to subsidise you (like OP and a few others in this thread).

And once people like them (progressive liberal) stop caring about paying taxes to subsidise you, you can forget about getting more.

Quite the opposite really. You would get a Tory Govt again that would make your life hell.

Thats why the politics of envy do not work. It polarises people and pushes the people that you want on your side away.

You need to seriousñy smarten up here.

multiply the number of private pupils with the cost of each state pupil.

Ignore all other losses and costs.

We know it because we have statistics. Just 7% of children are privately educated. Let’s be ludicrously generous and say 50% of their parents are Labour voters. That’s cancelled out by each child having two parents but most will have more than one child. So 3.5% of parents of school age children. That’s a vanishingly small number of votes.

Great. Then why did you try to dissemble by referring to the report as 'independent'?

Now that you've got over your games of laughter at how amusing it is to be caught out in a fib, any comment on the actual substance?

Here
£3.65 billion approx

Plus all the extra losses and costs.

Oh dear. This is a two-stage word problem! This is where some of the 11+ kids fall down, they forget to read the whole question.

You forgot to take the number of places by which the state school population will decrease by 2033, multiply that with the cost of each state people, and take it away from your first answer.

How do you know I’m not a net tax payer.🤔

Politics of envy er no politics of recognising huge inequalities and a few getting richer with an over representation of private pupils in the best jobs. Whatever government comes next needs to do some thing about it and I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in thinking that.

*state pupil, sorry for the typo!

@DrPrunesquallor How dare you call me a liar.

I didn't, I suggested your post and claims were disingenuous as often happens on annonymous forums. I did not abuse you.

@TheThinkingGoblin "This is one of the main reasons why Labour gets a bad rap." For rightfully stating that those in the AB socio economic groups (and therefore higher earners) are more likely to vote Tory. They did at the 2019 election, 2017, and 2015. The Tory party took the largest single number of the votes from this grouping.

@DrPrunesquallor If you know what the ISC is then why did you erroneously refer to it as an independent report?

"multiply the number of private pupils with the cost of each state pupil.

Ignore all other losses and costs."

As said the number of students leaving will be minimal, as so few of them are from households that will not be able to adapt to pay the increase in the fees.

As shown that ISC data was flawed, and its conclusions, based on the increases to fees since it was completed, were wrong.