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AIBU?

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Original poster

Safeguarding inheritance

103 replies

Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:01

Posting for traffic - TLDR; relates to inheritance and a parent living with a partner (not married) and wanting to ensure kids inherit.

So, as brief as poss! My DF lives in the house he and my DM bought in the 90s. DM died in the 90s and DF has been with current partner for just under 8 years. She moved from her XH’s to my DF’s home and has lived there since.

DF has purposely not married and has initiated conversation with me about inheritance, saying he has spoken to solicitor and has had will (re-)written to ensure his estate goes to DSis and I rather than his partner.

Partner is quite controlling and we anticipate that if she were to survive him, she will try to claim any inheritance/estate for herself. She has tried to encourage him to sell up house and re-buy with her and for e.g. has also spent money on decoration and refurbishment of the house (fairly superficial - not loft conversions or anything). She is very aware of this and has actually mentioned that she has invested in house - am sure she is aware of the implications in terms of potentially claiming a share of equity.

DF is currently in good health and sharp as ever, however another concern is if he were to become frail in any way she might try and do something like claim power of attorney or engineer that they get married.

For those that know about that sort of thing, what does he (and we) need to be aware of in terms of safeguarding him and what he wishes to pass on to us?

Should also add, I don’t automatically feel I’m entitled to anything - it’s his life and money and he can do what he wishes with it. However he has expressed his wishes to me and she is a very controlling person (hence he has no intention of them getting married and has sought legal advice). (Sadly he has also described her as abusive, however it does not seem he has plans to leave or end the relationship.) Hopefully it’s a long way off, but it worries me already that should this situation come to pass it will be upsetting and there will be an unpleasant battle with her to see his wishes respected.

Any advice appreciated.

OP posts:
MelchiorsMistress · 25/04/2023 21:07

You should make sure that you and your sister have lasting power of attorney for your Dad.

if your Dad has already been to a solicitor then he has probably had good advice and done all that can be done.

CindersAgain · 25/04/2023 21:12

You aren’t in Scotland? Children have rights over an inheritance if so.

Dontbelieveaword · 25/04/2023 21:13

I'm confused. Has your DF already sought legal advice about his inheritance wishes already? I'm not sure what advice people on here can give him that a solicitor hasn't/can't.
How old is your father?
If his partner has paid towards bills and upkeep, maintenance and refurbishment of house, she may well be entitled to something if they are still together when DF passes, specially if cohabitation continues for many years.
I guess you could go down power of attorney route but I'm not sure if that's only for people who are mentally incapacitated?
I'd personally be encouraging your DF to get out of such a controlling and abusive relationship in the present rather than worrying about where all his money might go years down the line

Original poster
Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:14

CindersAgain · 25/04/2023 21:12

You aren’t in Scotland? Children have rights over an inheritance if so.

No not in Scotland

OP posts:
Original poster
Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:15

Dontbelieveaword · 25/04/2023 21:13

I'm confused. Has your DF already sought legal advice about his inheritance wishes already? I'm not sure what advice people on here can give him that a solicitor hasn't/can't.
How old is your father?
If his partner has paid towards bills and upkeep, maintenance and refurbishment of house, she may well be entitled to something if they are still together when DF passes, specially if cohabitation continues for many years.
I guess you could go down power of attorney route but I'm not sure if that's only for people who are mentally incapacitated?
I'd personally be encouraging your DF to get out of such a controlling and abusive relationship in the present rather than worrying about where all his money might go years down the line

Yeah he seems unlikely to do that, sadly

OP posts:
HowSpicy · 25/04/2023 21:16

You should get the financial & health power of attorney in place ASAP
It takes a few weeks
You can do it with him yourself
Print the forms off look on www.gov.uk & search for power of attorney

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http://www.gov.uk

Original poster
Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:18

MelchiorsMistress · 25/04/2023 21:07

You should make sure that you and your sister have lasting power of attorney for your Dad.

if your Dad has already been to a solicitor then he has probably had good advice and done all that can be done.

What is lasting power of attorney? Is that something he can stipulate in advance of anything like that being needed? (Hopefully never will be needed)

OP posts:
Original poster
Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:18

HowSpicy · 25/04/2023 21:16

You should get the financial & health power of attorney in place ASAP
It takes a few weeks
You can do it with him yourself
Print the forms off look on www.gov.uk & search for power of attorney

Thank you, and thank you for the link x

OP posts:
BHRK · 25/04/2023 21:19

You need power of attorney over finances and health. We have it for my parents. Yes he can do it in advance

TheNoodlesIncident · 25/04/2023 21:22

I guess you could go down power of attorney route but I'm not sure if that's only for people who are mentally incapacitated?

That isn't so. My FIL and DH arranged that DH should have POA while his Dad was still very much with capacity. It made things a bit easier when FIL developed dementia although his partner (they agreed not to marry so that their respective families would have no difficulties with inheritance) was the loveliest woman, we still adore her although FIL is no longer with us.

I would certainly look into POA with your Dad and encourage him to write a will if he hasn't already. No doubt he would want to leave something to his partner even if he wishes the bulk to pass to his children.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 25/04/2023 21:22

I guess you could go down power of attorney route but I'm not sure if that's only for people who are mentally incapacitated?

Absolutely not. It’s too late to set up a LPA once the person does not have capacity. DH and I have LPAs for each other and we’re in good health in our 50s. If DH goes first, my LPA passes to my DS.

OP, your DF can easily set up LPAs with you and your DSIS as attorneys. You don’t need a solicitor. However it only kicks in of your DF wants you to help when he’s older and less capable, or if he loses capacity. I basically became my DM’s personal assistant - she had capacity but wanted me to make things happen on her behalf.

Runaway0 · 25/04/2023 21:23

Just being gentle but they will probably marry in the end. My DF insisted he was never marrying or living with another woman again he had a heart attack and he proposed in his hospital bed he now has severe heart failure. They are married she's moved in and her son lives in her house. He is quite shrewd with his finances I suspect he wanted his nurse in place. Ill health changes everything I'm not bothered if I don't get anything make peace with it.

titchy · 25/04/2023 21:24

The problem is that currently if he dies, he leaves his partner (elderly?) homeless which is a bit of a shitty thing to do and if she can show she was financially dependent on him she may well have a case for challenging his will.

What's her financial position?

Gonnagetacatwhenimovein · 25/04/2023 21:27

Get a will and he needs to expressly state that he does not want partner to inherit but will give her 1 years grace to move out for example.
also get the POA so that you can make financial decisions should his health decline.

UpdownUpdownAltogetherNow · 25/04/2023 21:30

She will be able to challenge the Will if she’s living rent free in his house as she’ll be considered dependant on him.

TurkishClouds · 25/04/2023 21:31

As often happens, people are getting divorce and death mixed up.
If the property is solely his then he can will it to whoever he wishes regardless of any contribution she's made to renovations etc.
Being married wouldn't change this.
If she is financially dependent on him she could challenge the will but that is expensive and difficult to do successfully.
If he is deliberately excluding her from his will it is good if he states this in the will. Alternatively he can leave her something small. Both of these actions show he has actively made a decision and not just overlooked making provision for her. This makes it easier to defend any challenge to the will.

Original poster
Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:34

Runaway0 · 25/04/2023 21:23

Just being gentle but they will probably marry in the end. My DF insisted he was never marrying or living with another woman again he had a heart attack and he proposed in his hospital bed he now has severe heart failure. They are married she's moved in and her son lives in her house. He is quite shrewd with his finances I suspect he wanted his nurse in place. Ill health changes everything I'm not bothered if I don't get anything make peace with it.

Sorry to hear about your DF’s heart attack. Yes, like I say, I don’t regard myself as ‘entitled’ to anything and I anticipate things not being smooth sailing. In my DF’s case it’s specifically this person he has chosen not to marry, because she is controlling and in his words (emotionally) abusive. I’m sure he’s aware that she would not respect any wishes for me and sis to inherit something from him (and the house was originally bought with our mum). I don’t think it’s all bad but he would not trust her to look out for us.

DSis is also unable to work due to an auto-immune condition and he is keen to see her taken care of. Anything could happen but just trying to take the sensible steps available to see his wishes carried out. The more you know etc

OP posts:
Daffidale · 25/04/2023 21:36

i suggest getting some legal advice here around what if anything you can do to protest your father in event he did lose capacity. The scenarios you are concerned about do definitely happen.

def get the POA now. I don’t know if it would help but possibly he should specify on it very clearly that he does NOT want his partner making financial or health/welfare decisions for him. Or if there are other ways he can record his wishes now so that if eg she does try to coerce him into marrying her later in some confused state you might have more grounds for challenging it on grounds of mental capacity.

I would explore if there is anything that could be done around transferring ownership of the house to you now with guarantees of a home for him. Extreme and risky for him, but maybe worth a discussion. Def get legal advice as it has IHT and care home cost implications (basically to stop people doing it to avoid IHT and care home fees! So there are Rules about it).

SunnyUmbrellaWeather · 25/04/2023 21:36

I would also suggest that in his will he leaves her a set amount of money specifically so that she can move out of the property within X time frame and the money will allow her to do that. That way he has considered her, her contribution to the property and her housing situation too. It needs to be stipulated she is to vacate the property. Hopefully there is money to enable her to do this ie not tied up in the sale of the house.

Original poster
Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:37

titchy · 25/04/2023 21:24

The problem is that currently if he dies, he leaves his partner (elderly?) homeless which is a bit of a shitty thing to do and if she can show she was financially dependent on him she may well have a case for challenging his will.

What's her financial position?

She is comfortable afaik. Still working, lots of lavish holidays, etc. Very shrewd though so could be an angle worth investigating (she might have considered this and arranged her finances accordingly).

OP posts:
Original poster
Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:38

SunnyUmbrellaWeather · 25/04/2023 21:36

I would also suggest that in his will he leaves her a set amount of money specifically so that she can move out of the property within X time frame and the money will allow her to do that. That way he has considered her, her contribution to the property and her housing situation too. It needs to be stipulated she is to vacate the property. Hopefully there is money to enable her to do this ie not tied up in the sale of the house.

Thank you for the helpful advice

OP posts:
bumpytrumpy · 25/04/2023 21:40

SunnyUmbrellaWeather · 25/04/2023 21:36

I would also suggest that in his will he leaves her a set amount of money specifically so that she can move out of the property within X time frame and the money will allow her to do that. That way he has considered her, her contribution to the property and her housing situation too. It needs to be stipulated she is to vacate the property. Hopefully there is money to enable her to do this ie not tied up in the sale of the house.

Agree with this.

If the will shows he has considered her, and legitimately decided to leave a small amount of cash to enable moving out it is less open to question than if she is totally ignored.

gogohmm · 25/04/2023 21:53

I would suggest that his will acknowledges her (as in a reasonable lump sum) and gives her a set period to vacate (6month perhaps) otherwise hes making her homeless. If she's that bad why doesn't he split from her now?

endofthelinefinally · 25/04/2023 21:58

Get POA sorted out now.
Speak to an IHT and estate planner.
A regular solicitor can write his will, but won't necessarily give the best advice on estate planning, which is very important in this situation.

Original poster
Stratusinium · 25/04/2023 21:58

gogohmm · 25/04/2023 21:53

I would suggest that his will acknowledges her (as in a reasonable lump sum) and gives her a set period to vacate (6month perhaps) otherwise hes making her homeless. If she's that bad why doesn't he split from her now?

Don’t know - suppose all those usual things that keep people in difficult or controlling relationships, or even in normal but unsatisfactory ones - fear, difficulty getting time to yourself to think, worrying about being alone, starting over in later life, limited social support network, etc. Multiplied by someone who cuts them off from people, weakens ties outside the relationship, undermines your sense of independence and self-sufficiency, encourages co-dependency, etc.

OP posts: